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Two bad birds with one stone

Submitted by Nomad on Sat, 2008-04-26 09:35.
I am surprised that my analogy, an after thought meant to be more witty than serious, was taken as if I were really worried about it.  It is interesting to think about, but perhaps only for a minute.

It is all in one's perspective.  Reading different sites on the net you will notice that some will say, "I have CFIDSi."  Lymies will reply much to the dismay of the CFID's community, "no it's really lyme that you have.  You are just fatigued because of a Borrelia infection. You should get tested"  And the dialogue and/or arguement goes on.  I heard one girl say, "I have real CFIDSi"  People get comfortable with their illness.

If one were satisfied with his Lyme diagnosis, he might say, "I have Lyme with co infectionsi of CMV and CPni."  I have heard many times from the Lyme world that "if you take care of the Lyme, these other things (especially the viral ones) will take care of themselves (they thought it was very weird that I took Valcyte to push the CMV back).  I don't think I have ever heard anyone say, "I have CMV or CPn with a co infection of Lyme". But I do hear, "look for co-infections".  But they mean tick borne co-infections.  They have their emphasis, their lenses through which they see illnesses.   And Cpners do as well.  I've spent a lot of time reading our posts here before I started to write anything.  It has been eye opening to switch lenses.  There is a lot of projection going on out there.  I am sure I am guilty of it too.

I don't really care about the order of the illness, or which one is in the driver's seat.  They are all co- conspirators to the detriment of my health and I don't want my identity to be in any of them.  Labels are good for doctors so they will treat you seriously and for outsiders that say, "You don't look sick".  If you can tell them what you have has a name, they seem to be more satisfied.

So which came first the Chicken or the egg?  Do we really care when we eat our breakfast or make a cake?   Do we ponder this when we are enjoying our fried chicken?  No.  But I am thankful that the CAPi hits two bad birds with one stone.

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Ahh...perspective.

Submitted by BobO on Sat, 2008-04-26 10:51.

Ahh...perspective. Orthogonality. Bias. Doesn't that totally define everything?

While I personally have no clue of the order, I would tend to see the occurance of CPni as an opportunistic infection encouraged by my Lyme. I also have pretty significant EBVi antibodies, but no one seems to troubled by that...generally taking the attitude that if you fix the bugs, the viruses will fade. Who knows. Just pass me the abxi.

But on the subject of Bias and Perspective: I never knew that I was a suppressive racist until the current election cycle here in the US. I was pretty sure that most racial bias had substantially faded, and that to the extent humanly possible I would be inclined to judge another human by the content of their character and not their race or gender.

It wasn't until all those nice people on TV told me how bad it really is and how bad I really am, that I saw the light....I am truly a bad person...which really makes my friendships with others different than myself so awkward. To think that we got along so famously when we were ignorant of how racist we were. What were we thinking?!?

Ok, that was totally tongue-in-cheek. But it is an amazing example of how different people can be looking at precisely the same people, actions, and events, and arrive at substantally different conclusions about cause and motivation. And that's with stuff that can be seen with the naked eye.

How much worse does it become when we are talking about itty-bitty bugs that two labs can't even agree on the proper way to determine the presence thereof? It's a wonder that anybody can agree on anything. Oh wait...they don't.

Lest there be any confusion of my motivation, I am chuckling to myself the entire time I'm typing. This is not intended as an offended or offensive response, but rather humorous indictment of human perspective.

People are truly funny. We just need to keep laughing; it's good medicine! Laughing

Tennessee, USA - Bb positive w/neuroi involvement, suspected CPn

Doxyi/Samento for Bb 2005-2007

Started CAPi 4/19/08 - NACi 2400mg, Doxy 200mg, Zithro 250mg M/W/F

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Tennessee, USA - Bb positive w/neuroi involvement, suspected CPni
Doxyi/Samento for Bb 2005-2007
Started CAPi 4/19/08 - NACi 2400mg, Pyruvate 6g, Doxy 200mg, Zithro 250mg M/W/F, Metroi pulses @ 3x500mg

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I chuckled the entire time I

Submitted by Nomad on Sat, 2008-04-26 10:56.

I chuckled the entire time I read your post!  Thanks for making me smile.  Must be our southern sense of humor.  Not only did I grow up in Florida,  I went to College in Ga.  That was before my nomadic existence.

 

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My sense of humor has been

Submitted by BobO on Sat, 2008-04-26 11:22.

My sense of humor has been one of the few things that has kept me sane. Never lose it.

I was born in the south, but spent about 10 years in various places in the northeast and midwest. My dad worked for IBM when I was a wee tot, back in the days when IBM meant I've Been Moved...it was very much like being  military brat, but the bases were nicer. If that wasn't enough traveling, I spent several years in the Army. Address of record has been Tennessee since '81, but I've seen a lot of this country and a lot of the world. It has really shaped my sense of how small I am, how big God is, and how silly people are sometimes...especially me.

Tennessee, USA - Bb positive w/neuroi involvement, suspected CPni

Doxyi/Samento for Bb 2005-2007

Started CAPi 4/19/08 - NACi 2400mg, Doxy 200mg, Zithro 250mg M/W/F

___________________________________________________________

Tennessee, USA - Bb positive w/neuroi involvement, suspected CPni
Doxyi/Samento for Bb 2005-2007
Started CAPi 4/19/08 - NACi 2400mg, Pyruvate 6g, Doxy 200mg, Zithro 250mg M/W/F, Metroi pulses @ 3x500mg

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That may seem like a sort

Submitted by Norman Yarvin on Sat, 2008-04-26 21:35.
That may seem like a sort of silly, abstract question, but it actually has a reasonable answer. Looking at the way the two germs work, it's natural for Lyme to serve as an icebreaker for Cpni. Lyme is a spirochete -- something like a microscopic snake, which can swim through the tissues of the body, rather than just being carried by the bloodstream. It can get just about anywhere in the body, and cause trouble there. This swimming is what accounts for the characteristic spreading rash, with spirochetes moving away from the point of origin (tick bite); very few bacteria can do this, which is why it's so diagnostic of Lyme. Cpn, on the other hand, is carried by the bloodstream; on its own, it doesn't have much of a capability of penetrating into new areas of the body. What it does do, however, is to catch rides on white blood cells, which are sent into sites of inflammationi; it then sets up shop there, and doesn't go away.

What is likely to be the usual scenario is thus that someone has a longstanding but relatively mild Cpn infection, then gets Lyme, which starts infecting new areas. Once those areas are infected with Lyme, white blood cells, some of which are already carrying Cpn, are sent in to fight the Lyme infection; they then infect the area with Cpn.

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Very interesting.  Thank

Submitted by Nomad on Sat, 2008-04-26 23:23.

Very interesting.  Thank you for that thorough and descriptive explanation.  I know quite a bit about the Lyme corkscrew abilities, but I am still learning about the cpni.

So the white blood cells fighting the Lyme infection -- or any other infection for that matter carry the cpn to the fight and infect the site with cpn as well.

I guess the two bad birds join forces.  I'll say it again.  I am very glad the capi I am on hits them both.

Thanks!

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