Thinking outside the box-is there a future better way?

As one reads the entries on this site you learn of many challenges and hardships faced as one deals with the numerous reactions to the protocol. Many are due to the die off aspects.

It makes me wonder if somewhere in the future there could be another way that might be more tolerable and perhaps quicker. I'd like to toss out a few thoughts for different approaches that maybe someday might work(or not). Given the vast knowledge and experience of the members of this site, I invite and encourage other thoughts. Maybe there is an audience out there that might explore some of these ideas if they were captured here - you know - "plant the seed" or "put a bug in ones ear".

Here goes:

1. As a challenge for the body is to cope with the die off effects, can this "kill" be done outside the body? For example:

   A.) on a regular basis donate X amount of blood. It then gets treated outside of your body and when "clean" (ie no signs of bacteria/virus/toxins) it gets re-transfused back into you.

    B.) expanding upon kidney dialysis, improve it such that it handles bacteria/virus/toxins

 

2. Another thought is to develop a drug that nullifies the die-off such that while the antibiotic/antiviral creates a endotoxini load this new drug would immediately tackle the endotoxinsi with the net result being the patient would be unaware of the die-off and would not suffer all the downstream consequences (ie porphyriai, etc). If this worked, it could be a major money maker for a drug company as it should in theory work for any antibiotic/antiviral. Also in theory, it might mean one could do the full protocal from day one(subject to damage from major organ infiltration)and therfore get a quicker resolution.

 

3. Since CPNi is so prevalent in society, can it be stopped before people get chronically ill? For example, NACi stops the EBs. We have water treated with floride for cavity prevention, milk fortified with Vit D, other food stuffs enhanced with calcium, Vit C or folic acid">i, etc. Can NAC be added to a basic food/water staple such that CPN doesn't ever get to take hold the way it has for users of this site?

4. Thinking along the lines of cancer radiation treatments, could it be possible to develop a die that could be injected that would attached itself to the bacteria/virus and then subsequently killed by a dose(s) of radiation? Maybe targeted spots to avoid massive kills in one shot? Maybe a final kill of all remaining CPN after being on the protocal for a period of time - ie a guarantee that it is in fact gone?

Your turn for ideas. Don't be constrained by potential costs or current unavailablity. This is a brainstorming discussion that hopefully might generate a solution of some sort in the future.

CFSi-2004 CPN 2000mg NAC daily
> 4. Thinking along the lines of cancer radiation treatments, could it be possible to develop a die that could be injected that would attached itself to the bacteria/virus and then subsequently killed by a dose(s) of radiation? Maybe targeted spots to avoid massive kills in one shot?

Wow, you're no slouch. That's just how Ehrlich was thinking when he basically invented, or at least began to really clarify - or at least started ending up getting credited for, anyway - the very idea of selective antimicrobial chemotherapy, or antimicrobical drugs.

That was ~1905. A few chemotherapies existed then, but most infectious disease scientists were focused on immunotherapies (serums and vaccines) until decades later.

Ehrlich's idea for a selective chemical attack was inspired by the selective binding of the dyes used to stain microbes for observation under the microscope.

Ehrlich thought in just your terms. There would be a "dye" part of a drug that would stick to the microbe, and a "warhead" part of the same drug molecule, that would be a general toxin. The thing is, when a drug binds to a part of a microbe, that itself it can kill the microbe anyway, by inhibiting the function of the part of the microbe it has stuck to. That's how most antimicrobial drugs work. The warhead isn't really necessary. Ehrlich was pretty wrong about everything related to biochemistry and chemotherapy theory... but more importantly, he invented new chemotherapies... and was a serial pathbreaker in other fields as well.

However, today people are using antibodies that have nasty toxin warheads bound to them, to attack cancer. The antibodies bind to sites that are only found on the cancer cells, which internalize them and are poisoned. However, I don't think any of those things have reached the clinic yet.


> [blood] gets treated outside of your body and when "clean" (ie no signs of bacteria/virus/toxins) it gets re-transfused back into you.

How do you know they're in the blood? How would you eliminate them?


> As one reads the entries on this site you learn of many challenges and hardships faced as one deals with the numerous reactions to the protocol. Many are due to the die off aspects.

True, but improving efficacy is the biggest challenge.


> 3. Since CPNi is so prevalent in society, can it be stopped before people get chronically ill? For example, NACi stops the EBs. We have water treated with floride for cavity prevention, milk fortified with Vit D, other food stuffs enhanced with calcium, Vit C or folic acidi, etc. Can NAC be added to a basic food/water staple such that CPN doesn't ever get to take hold the way it has for users of this site?

A vaccine would be a likelier approach. But it might not work. Take a look at any acute infection. Provided you don't die, your body clears the acute pathogen completely as soon as it gets its bearings. This demonstrates that the immunei system can kill acute pathogens once it learns to recognize them. No wonder vaccines are almost 100% effective against many/most acute pathogens (the pertussis vaccine is one that's significantly below 100% effective).

Vaccination against chronic pathogens is a hell of a lot spottier. Tuberculosis vaccines have been variably protective, but at best only partially so. Malaria vaccines have been attempted for decades and have not come out yet. The lyme disease vaccine was supposed to be ~80% effective. Syphilis vaccination of rabbits, giving only weak protection, required 30-50 injections. Don't hold your breath for the syphilis vaccine. All HIV vaccines tried so far have proven ineffective. All this data makes sense. All those microbes can persist in the body even after the immune system starts to specifically recognize them. That's exactly why they cause chronic diseasesi. All a vaccine does is train the immune system to specifically recognize microbes ahead of time, before they even infect you. That's not good enough if the microbe can avoid being killed even after it is specifically recognized. Not good enough for total protection, anyway. Whether vaccination will be enough to reduce the chances of chlamydial infectionsi, we won't know until someone tries (I'm sure someone's probably been working on it in animals, actually I think G Zhong has worked on C. trach).

cfs,  Have a look at this page< on extracorporeal photophoresis.  Steve's dad has been undergoing this treatment at Yale for a condition that is either mycosis fungoides or Sezary's, as well as receiving some light treatments that have turned him about 47 shades darker than his usual skin color. 

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi) / Cpni indicated by reactions; Mpn, EBVi, CMV positive; elevated heavy metals; gluten+casein sensitive / Wheldon CAPi since Aug. '06 - doxycycline+azithromycin+flagyl pulses; antivirals; chelation; LDNi.

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

 I know of one experimental case where they did a dialysis using charcoal filtering to reduce entoxin/porphyrin load and EBi's. It evidently did work on improving reactions so they could increase rate of treatment, but only done experimentally. Insurance wouldn't pay for such a "nonapproved" use.

CAPi for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Flagyli daily (Continuous protocol)

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Isn't one of the most difficult problems with Cpni that it has a cryptic phase?   The earlier the detection of this the more likely we are to reduce the diseasesi Cpn causes.   Another problem is that Cpn in the majority of the population will not cause disease until later in life.   I think that if the global health authorities and insurance companies, were to realise that aging diseases could to a significant extent, be prevented, by early detection and treatment of pathogens such as Cpn etc., then maybe we stand a chance of saving people a lot of suffering and premature death.

Developping a marker that had the ability to show which cells were infected or had failed to reached 'normal' apoptosisi might provide such a solution.   At least we might be able to 'see' where to look for infected tissue and find out what the specific pathogen was.

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBSi, sinusitis, alopecia">i, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyli at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Isn't one of the most difficult problems with Cpni that it has a cryptic phase?   The earlier the detection of this the more likely we are to reduce the diseasesi Cpn causes.   Another problem is that Cpn in the majority of the population will not cause disease until later in life.   I think that if the global health authorities and insurance companies, were to realise that aging diseases could to a significant extent, be prevented, by early detection and treatment of pathogens such as Cpn etc., then maybe we stand a chance of saving people a lot of suffering and premature death.

Developping a marker that had the ability to show which cells were infected or had failed to reached 'normal' apoptosisi might provide such a solution.   At least we might be able to 'see' where to look for infected tissue and find out what the specific pathogen was.

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBSi, sinusitis, alopecia">i, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyli at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

The future better way must be a vaccine.  People ARE working on one, but it takes time.  If it was given as a normal childhood vaccine CPni would become a thing of the past.  People in years to come would be commenting on the fact that people didn't seem to be getting MSi anymore, hopefully CFSi would also be greatly diminished........Sarah
 
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
Wheldon regime since August 2003, for very aggressive SPMSi.  Intermittent therapy after one year. 2007 still take this, now two weeks every three months, but still slowly improving and no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was about 7, now 2.
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.
Sarah, speaking of thinking outside the box...a vaccine certainly seems promising. But it would need to be given sometime during the earliest months after birth. Had this been the case back in the early 60's, it might have prevented ms in my case as I wound up in the hospital with pneumonia at eight months. Who knows?? kk2

 

On Wheldon regime [Doxyi, Azith, and Flagyli]  for rrmsi since October '05.  EDSSi was 6.5, now 5.5.  United States.

Wheldon Protocol for rrmsi since Oct '05.  Added LDN 4.5mg qhs Oct '07.  All supp's.  Positive IGGi's for Lyme Disease,Babesia, & Erlichiosis Sept. 2008.  Currently:  Mepron 750mg bid and Azithromycin 250mg qdi for Babesia.

Yes, vaccination would have to be very soon after birth.  I was thinking along the same lines, at least for the first couple of generations until women of child bearing age were no longer infected.   I'm sure my daughter was born with it, she was infected either in the womb or during birth.   She too was unwell as a baby, (would not feed, colicky, very, very slow weight gain).   By the age of four she was having unexplained fainting spells and short fits and so it goes on...

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBSi, sinusitis, alopecia">i, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyli at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

However, serocoversion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seroconversion<) of chlamydia pneumoniae doesn't take place until the teens, according to DW, who should know.   You might well get an acute infection earlier but it won't turn chronic.........Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
Wheldon regime since August 2003, for very aggressive SPMSi.  Intermittent therapy after one year. 2007 still take this, now two weeks every three months, but still slowly improving and no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was about 7, now 2.
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

well, I am not a big fan on the vaccine side of things.  Some suggest a link between the polio vaccination & autism for example?  Before that time autism was virtually unheard of.  There are pros & cons and for me the jury is still out. 

I don't get the flu vac annually nor will I get the new Hep vac & my daughter was not vaccinated.  She is 21 & quite healthy all the same.

But then, that is just me as presently I don't see the need.  

Things change, however, in the meantime, I think I may have stirred the pot a little.

With Christ in Faith

Ruth 

CFIDSi/ME, FMSi, MCS, IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplementsi+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyli/day-5 days<

I think autism is no more common than it was before, its now just more recognised.  There was a scare in this country a few years back about the measles, mumps and rubella combination vaccine and autism.  It led to many parents not having their children vaccinated.  For a while the percentage of children not being  vaccinated meant that the herd immunity level dropped and there was a measles epidemic.  Some children can die from measles.  Autism first becomes evident at just above the age where the vaccination is normally given, so parents seeking a reason for their child's autism naturally homed in on the vaccine.
 
I had all the childhood vaccines yet I have never had a flu vaccine because I don't think they work well enough.  If I was travelling somewhere where a certain vaccine was needed because of some rife disease, I would have it done.  Vaccines have made modern life much healthier than before.  Young people used to die from polio, or be disabled for life.  I hope someday people will say the same about MSi and other CPni diseasesi.........Sarah
 
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
Wheldon regime since August 2003, for very aggressive SPMSi.  Intermittent therapy after one year. 2007 still take this, now two weeks every three months, but still slowly improving and no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was about 7, now 2.
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

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