EB- Elementary body

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Infectious, spore-like, nonreplicating form of Cpn which accumulates in intracellular spaces, attaches itself to body cells, and invades them.

what to do, what to do....?

.. having a pity party today. It's Memorial Day weekend here in the US... beautiful, sunny day, and I can barely walk around the yard, let alone do anything physical, even driving a car.  My husband is working overtime and I am home alone... not a good day.  YET, I AM alive, just feeling a bit depressed and not knowing which way to go.

Thinking outside the box-is there a future better way?

As one reads the entries on this site you learn of many challenges and hardships faced as one deals with the numerous reactions to the protocol. Many are due to the die off aspects.

It makes me wonder if somewhere in the future there could be another way that might be more tolerable and perhaps quicker. I'd like to toss out a few thoughts for different approaches that maybe someday might work(or not). Given the vast knowledge and experience of the members of this site, I invite and encourage other thoughts. Maybe there is an audience out there that might explore some of these ideas if they were captured here - you know - "plant the seed" or "put a bug in ones ear".

Here goes:

Tackling the EB Form

Is it essential to tackle the EB form of the bacteria?

I ask because I've seen both opinions expressed on this site.

My problem is that I'm mercury poisoned and can't tolerate NACi. Mercury poisoned people tend to have high cysteine and so NAC is contra-indicated. I react badly to NAC and sulfur foods (I get headaches and my mind goes blank). I've had this since before I got CPni and its unlike any of the reactions I get from antibioticsi. So I'm almost certain its not CPn die-off.

Also I have really bad gut dysbiosis, so I'm loathe to take amoxicillini long term as it gives me candida.

Help I am so confused

I am still trying to get a grasp on Chlamydia Pneumoniae, I just found out on 4-11-07.  But I have been sick for awhile  Cry.  I am just starting Antibioticsi again......eeeeek Foot in mouth.  My symptoms have been sinus infectionsi and uppper respitory infections , Phlaringitis, Broncotitis, Asthmai.  In and out of the Dr. office the month of April, and my throat swelled shut I could go on and on.  I ended up at an Infetious disease Dr.

adipose tissue's role?

I was at the gym last night and reflecting on the events prior to my diagnosis with MSi and leading up to it. One of the things that stands out in my mind is that my condition worsened greatly over the course of a year just prior to the diagnosis which was happening at the very same time I was losing large amounts of weight. In fact, the onset of the active form of my condition was 2 - 3 months after I set off into attempting weight loss.

NAC 600 mg veggie capsules

Dear Cpners: This is Chain Ganger.   Does anyone know how many 600 mg veggie capsules of NACi I should take a day?  I was diagnosed with CPN on Nov. 7 and NAC is the first recommended supplement I've taken.  At present I'm taking 1 capsule.  Thanks for answering my question

Essential Observations by Dr. Charles Stratton on Chlamydia Pneumoniae Infection and Disease

I am very excited to present the following article that summarizes Dr. Stratton's recent observations on Chlamydia pneumoniae infection. Putting it together has contributed greatly to my own understanding of Cpni as well as to my appreciation of Dr. Stratton's generosity with his time, and his great depth of knowledge of this area. Thanks to him for his contribution.

Jim K

Recent observations by Dr

Recent observations by Dr. Charles Strattoni on Chlamydia Pneumoniae (Cpn) Infection

Winnowing down EBs?

Hi.  I'm wondering how possible it would be to willow down the EBs gradually so that when Flagyli is started, there isn't the herx reaction to a massive die off of EBs?  What I have in mind is a lower dose of NACi, taken over time.

So ultimately my question is this:  is it necessary to take the full 2x600mg / day of NAC to achieve die off of EBs, or can a smaller dose eradicate a smaller portion of them?  My "mini-trial" of NAC was using 2x600 mg / day and I got a massive reaction (by my definition) on the third day.  I want to mitigate that somewhat in the future so that when I get to the Flagyl stage, it won't incapacitate me.  A smaller dose of NAC would theoretically kill off fewer EBs, right?  It would still be effective, just not as effective?

Dr. Stratton Answers Some Questions:

In some recent correspondance with Dr. Stratton at Vanderbilt University, he kindly answered some of the questions which had formed as I've understood more about the combination antibiotic protocol and about Cpni. From the patient's perspective I wanted to correlate some observations about treatment reactions with his deeper understanding about the biology of the Cpn. I'll list the questions I put to him, and then his generous response below.

1.  In an earlier correspondance you had mentioned pulsing the INHi band metronidazolei together.
        * Why do that rather than take it continuously?
        * My understanding is that INH is one of the anti-replicatives, and the point is to use these continuously to drive the bug into the cryptic phase where it will be obliterated by the flagyl/tinii. Does INH act differently than the other antireplicatives?
        * I also understood that we use a dual abxi to prevent developing resistance. Why can we use INH alone without developing resistance?
 

Is NAC really as good as amoxicillin?

I had just started on amoxicillan after a year on the protocol to start to adress the EB load which probably had built up in my tissue. I posted this in "Jim's Story"< update a while back. When David Wheldoni came out with his report on NAC as a thiol-reducing agent to get at the EB'si, and both Chuck Strattoni and Mike Powell, who had already been using it in his practice independant of David's observations, concurred that this was a legitimate strategy I switched to NAC: it doesn't kill off any bowel flora as amoxi does, and it is great for liver support. I noticed the similar flu-like symptoms fo a week, and burning in extremities similar to what I got from amoxi, it seemed to work on the same stuff.

Cpn Slides

This link< for slides on the different life stages of Cpn.

Comments by David Wheldon in response to questions about choice of antibiotics in his protocal versus the Vanderbilt protocal:

I believe that Stratton and co-workers used a beta-lactam (penicillin, amoxycillin or similar) to attack the infectious stage
(elementary body) of the organism. They did some in vitro work to support this, which they should publish, because it's
fundamental. I reasoned that, as culture was so rare in persistent human infections, the numbers of elementary bodies would
be small. Also, any elementary body entering a phagosome in a cell containing bacterial protein-synthesis inhibitors would be
doomed, as the organism needs to fabricate proteins immediately to survive. Coupled with this was a native gut-reaction that
people would buy into the idea more readily if there were fewer antibiotics. And, further, that one is taught at med school
never to combine cidal and static agents. In the higher levels of microbiology that's not always true, but basically you just
want people to believe you and treat, as early as possible, and the more complications you put in their way the more difficult
that is.

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