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Toxic byproducts of bacteria or metabolism

CPN in Synovial Fluid????

Over the past 3 days my walking has gotten progressively worse.  My right knee is so swollen and painful I can't bend or move it. When I walk I try to "make up" for my peg leg with my good leg... now my left leg is starting to give me pain.  I had a dr. appt and he seems to think it's bursitis.  My FM symptoms are also worsening... again this all started with the addition of Azith.  Katman, I know you said you had extreme joint pain/problems..... anyone else?

6 Month Milemarker on CAP

Actually, 6 months and 2 days... the 27th of September marked six months of my being on CAPi.  As Ruth mentioned in a previous post about herself, I am no longer a newbie!  I am now reading posts of those coming on board, reflecting on my past experiences!  It's a strange feeling indeed -- firstly, to realize how many of us there are "out there".  It is wonderful that people are finding this website -- the word is getting out.

As I read of those coming on board it's a curiosity to gauge the different levels of tolerance the individuals have.  Some are able to ramp up on the meds quite quickly and others, like me, struggle to build up to each level.  I guess this is also indicative of our unique immunei systems and the CPNi load each of us carries.

hmmm ... "well tolerated"

I've been rather silent on the site the past week or so, in that, I have had some negative situations occurring in my life that have brought me down physically and mentally. (all pertaining to my work/insurance situation Yell ) This doesn't help my illness or state of mind!  But I would like to add a great big THANKS to the cheerleader on this site who keeps encouraging me! (and reminded me

Thinking outside the box-is there a future better way?

As one reads the entries on this site you learn of many challenges and hardships faced as one deals with the numerous reactions to the protocol. Many are due to the die off aspects.

It makes me wonder if somewhere in the future there could be another way that might be more tolerable and perhaps quicker. I'd like to toss out a few thoughts for different approaches that maybe someday might work(or not). Given the vast knowledge and experience of the members of this site, I invite and encourage other thoughts. Maybe there is an audience out there that might explore some of these ideas if they were captured here - you know - "plant the seed" or "put a bug in ones ear".

Here goes:

Help I am so confused

I am still trying to get a grasp on Chlamydia Pneumoniae, I just found out on 4-11-07.  But I have been sick for awhile  Cry.  I am just starting Antibioticsi again......eeeeek Foot in mouth.  My symptoms have been sinus infectionsi and uppper respitory infections , Phlaringitis, Broncotitis, Asthmai.  In and out of the Dr. office the month of April, and my throat swelled shut I could go on and on.  I ended up at an Infetious disease Dr.

The Puffies

Hi All,

After my last 2 day pulse I hit the ground and wound up taking several days off of everything except the vits and supps.

Interestingly, a couple days into my med break, I woke up very puffy.  Swollen joints in my fingers, pillow lines on my puffy face, ridges in my ankles from my socks and feeling like my head was going to explode.

This happened about 3 days in a row, along with headaches.  More interesting is that the puffiness came when the post pulse hunger subsided

My thoughts are that when the killing stops, the body goes into major clean up mode and tries to remove all the debris.  If this is actually what happens wouldn't it make a case for taking a short break every so often from all abxi?  Just wondering.  I'm back to the Zithi tomorrow.

Five Ways of Feeling Lousy

 Dr. David Wheldoni's succinct summary of the different reactions to Cpni and its treatment helps in sorting out the different responses and what to do about them. I've moved this from his comment in another members blog post to a page of it's own here in the Cpn Treatment Handbook.

Jim K (Editor in Chief) 

Five Ways of Feeling Lousy

I am inclined to think that there are five major mechanisms behind those unpleasant side effects of chronic large-load infection with C pneumoniae which worsen in the short-term with antichlamydial treatment.

a) Lipid peroxidation may likely get worse in the short-term as bacterial products are released both by breaking down EBs and by apoptosisi< of infected cells. Antioxidantsi<i< and B vitaminsi< (including B12) may help with this. I find melatonin">i<i< at night helpful.

Herxheimer, forewarned is forearmed


Those here  who have had a rough start to treatment might be interested in this description of herx in late stage lyme. To those just starting out on CAPs remember that not everyone will have all of these reactions......enjoy!




A Bad Date With Two Old Flames

I was so tired last night because I was at an all day workshop on Saturday. In the evening, I went downstairs to make dinner and felt a sudden chill and attack of malaise. I had taken a Zithromax earlier in the day because I forgot the Friday dose. Mixed up some powdered C and squeezed some ginger root into a glass of water. I made a big pot of vegetable soup with chicken and herbs and that seemed to make me feel much better.

I thought I would fall into bed and sleep like the dead but I was mistaken. My old flames Inflammationi and Insomnia were waiting to take me on a bad date of tossing and turning and generally feeling grotty. My joints ached, my sore wrist and hand were singing out and I felt like I was burning all over and my head was ringing. At 11:00 I woke up and drank soy milk and took a B12 shot, at 12:30 I was up drinking more water and when I got up at 2:30, I finally decided it was a toxin attack and took 12 caps of charcoal and went back to bed.i slept soundly until about 7:30.

Essential Observations by Dr. Charles Stratton on Chlamydia Pneumoniae Infection and Disease

I am very excited to present the following article that summarizes Dr. Stratton's recent observations on Chlamydia pneumoniae infection. Putting it together has contributed greatly to my own understanding of Cpni as well as to my appreciation of Dr. Stratton's generosity with his time, and his great depth of knowledge of this area. Thanks to him for his contribution.

Jim K

Recent observations by Dr

Recent observations by Dr. Charles Strattoni on Chlamydia Pneumoniae (Cpn) Infection

CPn Tx and my recent labs...(Attn: Bio nerds and CFIDS folks...)

I would love any help, suggestions or advice regarding the following:

1. My most recent labs show Vitamin Di way under normal (despite supplementation with cholecalciferol). My result was 15 where 20-200 is normal. Does CPni treatment *deplete* Vitamin D or increase the need for Vitamin D in some way I don't understand?

2. I also compared my most recent labs to some from pre-CPn treatment. The counts of neutrophils and monocytes have dropped significantly, they went from normal to very low normal.  My absolute monocyte count has dropped in half and my absolute neutrophil count has dropped by about 60%.

I'm not getting any colds, flus, or immune-related problems as of yet; in fact I have had a reduction in such since beginning the CAPi, but these labs are distressing- if they are meaningful in any way, which I am certainly not sure of.

Severe Abdominal Pain and Endotoxin Reaction?

I haven't posted here in a while.  Last week I had an unusual reaction and I'm not sure what caused my sxi so I thought I'd ask here.  I've been on Dr. Powell's protocol since Oct. 05.

 Last Tues I woke up with general achey lower abdominal pain and felt nauseous.  I still had to drive my son to school and decided to go to my warm water exercise class hoping it would help me feel better.  By late afternoon the pain began to get much more intense and severe. I tried using a heating pad, but it didn't help at all.  Finally at about 8pm I took 800mg Ibuprofin.  On a scale of 1 - 10 the pain was at about an 8 all night long even with the Ibuprofin.  Sometime during the night I thought to check to see if there was any tenderness and there was only on the lower right side a few inches to the right of the belly button and below.

HLA-B27 & C.Pn.

I was googling around a little, and started down a trail that looks promising<, except that I can't read most of the papers without a subscription. Undecided

 I was looking at connective tissue diseasesi and HLA-27B kept popping up, and C.Pn., but I can't get the connection - at least, not without buying access to a bunch of papers, most of which will be dead ends.

Does anyone know what the connection is? Or, even better, does anyone know where I can read about it without spending a fortune?


Reactions to CAP Treatment: That "Kissed by a Dementor" kind of feeling*

Bacterial Endotoxini reactions, Cytokinei (immunei) reactions and inflammationi<

These are often casually. but inaccurately, referred to as “herx” reactions, or scientifically as “herxheimer-like” alluding to the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction to bacterial toxins specifically from syphilis. All gram-negative bacteria, of which Cpni is one, have contain Lipopolysaccharidei endotoxinsi as well as HSPi's (heat shock proteins) which are released as a matter of course during infection and are in part responsible for the on-going symptoms of the infection.

When these bacterial are killed en masse during treatment, they release relatively large amounts of endotoxin, causing significant symptoms especially during initial phases of treatment, as well as when an additional antibiotic agent is added to the protocol. If the amount of endotoxin exceeds the body's ability to get rid of it, these toxic effects can be life threatening. But even in less threatening amounts, the endotoxins and the resulting reactions can cause oxidative stress and damage to body organs.

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