Should I take the Amoxiciiliian???

My poor body is protesting again. Basically, I have been ill since November 3rd with a severe bout of bronchitis, almost as bad as when I first became ill in Nov. of 2006.

Doc told me to double up on my azith and take it daily -- which I did. I also became SEVERELY constipated being in bed most of the month. Was starting to have "spells", nausea other wiggy symtpoms, so I took milk of magnesia... I got relief but it also threw my colon into spasms. Luckily I had some hycosomine from a previous "spastic bladder" after a bladder scope. The drug helped the spasms which I am contining to have 2 weeks later. I continue to have nagging pain in left descending colon area and splenic flexure area.

To make a long story short.... I ended up the ER because my husband thought I was going to die, pounding heart, inability to move... several other symptoms. Of course, in the ER... all blood tests were normal (they didn't test my thyroid levels, or histamine), chest x-ray and ekg fine. After being lectured on the "dangers" of being on long-term ABXi, as well as being on Cortef (even though I reminded them I was on a physiological dose) I decided to just go home. Then it hit me -- porphyriai! Must have crept up on me from doubling up on the ABXi. I started dosing with charcoal and smarties. Seemed to help.

I had a normally scheduled dr.'s appt. the next day.... since there was blood in the mucas of my stool he told me if the pain in my colon did not go away to take 500 mg of Amox-Clav, TID. Okay, so the pain is still there... I'm concerned about getting a more serious infection in my colon. Am not able to eat much, other than soft foods and broth (hmm, great for losing weight!). We also discussed my porphyria symptoms and I gave him a print out. He understands about chole, but for me thought "I" should not take it because of my constipation issues (remember I also ended up in the ER back in March w/ a similar problem)

BUT, after reading a bit here on the site (particularly one of Jim's posts from 2005) I am afraid to take the Amox. I guess it's a decision between two evils... risk colon infection or severe inflamation from CPNi die off? I take 1200 mg of NACi per day and have been for over a year. I also find this interesting because I had to stop my last 2 pulses after 3 days because of severe pain in my colon area.

If I take the Amox-Clav, should I stop the doxyi and azith for the 10 days I am suppose to take the Amox? I would hope I have been on the procotol long enough that the Amox may not have a severe affect?

I really am not sure what to do, I have been so sick the past month and a half and am afraid if I don't take the Amox I'll get infection and if I do take it I 'll be bed bound again......

 Any thoughts? 

JeanneRoz

 

 

 

Comments

Jim~ thanks for the input,

Jim~ thanks for the input, didn't mean to appear to put you on the spot :). Since my doctor understands what Tindi and Flagyli do to me (and the whole CPNi erradication process)... I went ahead and started the script for Amox-Clav.

I did quite a bit of "googling"/research and found some very informative sites that describe what each of these ABXi cover. Right now, unless we would have a "culture" of my colon... we really don't know what bacteria we're dealing with (and it may very well be just CPN -- my last 2 pulses did cause extreme pain in the area I am having problems with right now). So, I will trust my doctor's choice.  I was just very concerned about whether to keep taking the Doxyi and Azith.

I hope by taking the Amox-Clav now it will get me through this problem. Then, next month when I start pulsing again start clearning out anything we may have missed.

Thanks for your input and thoughts!

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Okay, I'm over my head

Okay, I'm over my head here. You or your doc need to consult with Dr. Stratton to pick something that you think you can manage, but that gets to the range of intestinal bacteria your doctor is concerned about. What little I know says that there are a lot of factors in the biochemistry of each that I'm clueless about. Your next step: get an expert.

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Jimbo :)~... I was

Jimbo :)~... I was wondering your reaction after reading what you wrote ;0. I refuse to take any of the fluoroquinolines (I was given Levaquin in the beginning and it's what I believe started the demise of my right knee.

The other options are

Clindamycin (Cleocin)

Metronidazolei (Flagyl)

Ampicillin (Omnipen, Marcillin)

Amoxicillini (Amoxil, Polymox, Trimox)

Cephalexin (Keflex, Biocef)

Imipenem and cilastatin (Primaxin)

Ticarcillin and clavulanate potassium (Timentin) or

Cefoxitin (Mefoxin)

 

The only reason I am concerned is I have such severe reactions to my pulses (swollen knees, inability to walk for several days and then the full month or so for recovery) so I believe I have a lot of potential inflammationi issues. Naci doesn't seem to bother me, but I haven't pushed it up to 2400/ day. Do any of the other ABXi ring a bell??? I guess I'll just have to take the Amox/Clav and find out... I REALLY don't want to risk a more serious colon infection.

Again, thanks,

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Well, I'll be...I swear, I

Well, I'll be...I swear, I can't recall how I actually felt from the amoxy, even after reading the post.  From the post, I must have had a recent talk with Dr. Stratton when I posted this as it's such a cogent explanation! Remember, we just don't have "typical" reactions to this stuff. Your mileage will vary, etc.. Do you have any reason to believe that you have a high EBi load, such as a reaction to NACi? I'd do it, and if it's too much you can switch to Cipro (probably stop one of the other antibioticsi then).

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Jeanne- I can't even

Jeanne- I can't even remember the post! On my own blog? Well, anyway, you might indeed just do a flagyli pulse, but if you are wanting to avoid have a full out pulse there is a med that has the same effect as flagyl for intestinal infectionsi, but isn't absorbed into the bloodstream so has no systemic effects. I can't recall the name of it, but someone may come along who will name it.

Magnesium supplement that has at least some magnesium oxide is good for constipation. It's not the most absorbable form of magnesium, so you get some laxative effect from it. Often best combined with some more absorbable magnesium.

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Jim~ here's the link, I

Jim~ here's the link<, I hope it works... it wasn't your blog, but rather a response to someone else.

(http://www.cpnhelp.org/having_a_hard_time_with_n< )

I won't go the Flagyl route, yet.... I've been using Tinii and it's given me enough grief :).

Just curious of your thoughts again after re-reading your post.

JeanneRoz

 

Submitted by Jim K< on Wed, 2005-12-28 19:48.
Lee- go slow if you need to! I started on the amoxi after almost a year of the protocol. I was absolutely floored by the amount of inflammationi<i< and pain everywhere despite having winnowed down the replicating and cryptic forms of Cpni<. I had to work up very gradually to deal with it. I eventually switched to the NACi< and had milder symptoms (I'm not yet convinced the NAC is as effective as amoxi yet, I may experiment by switching back to amoxi and seeing if I get a wallop), but eventually have gotten to the point where the NAC has little reaction. The EB form really builds up in tissues, and the longer you've had Cpn the more Eb'si<i< are stacked up in the intercellulari spaces. This has significant contribution to fatigue and brain fog as well as localized inflammation despite their being "non-metabolizing." So, don't underestimate the impact of killing the Eb's and NAC. You can gut it out, or if your reactions were as bad as mine you'll have to build up to it. Some people had flu like symptoms for a week or two on starting 1200mg/day of NAC, and some of us (me) were flattened by 600mg a day (or it's equivalent in amoxi). The other thing I'd comment in terms of the medical strategy (commenting as a non-medical person of course), is that while the EB load is clearly important in terms of general cruddyness and avoiding reinfection, the anti-replicating antibioticsi<i< (zithro, doxyi<i<, etc) and the flagyli< are far more crucial to the on-going infectious process. It actually makes more sense to me to start on building up to these meds first rather than amoxi/NAC because they are getting at the actual tissue-damaging infection. I know that Dr. Stratton starts on either the amoxi or doxy first, and have heard of some other doc's starting on NAC first because it is least toxic and gives liver support. But to me, if you have an actively progressing infection I'd want to get at that before being concerned about the EB's. Remember, I was on the full Wheldon protocol (doxy/zith/flagyl or tinii<

On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFSi<i</FMSi<i< since December 2004.

 

pulses) a year before I started looking at the EB's.

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Jim, thanks for your input.

Jim, thanks for your input. My concern is not increased porphyriai, but rather increased inflammationi. I did a search on our site and back on 12-28-05 you posted about the severe inflammation issues you had while taking Amox (after you had been on the protocol for over a year).

Amox-Clav is a choice for diverticulitis, as is Cipro, or Flagyli. I guess I could just do a pulse, LOL!! ??  I just didn't know whether I should stop the Azith and doxyi if I take the Amox.  So thank you for that information.

Boy, I guess either way, colon infection or possibly not being able to walk, another Christmas will be a bust! Arghh... I'm becoming depressed! I need an attitude adjustment...(or a bottle of wine (whine??)

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Jeanne- the amoxi won't

Jeanne- the amoxi won't worsen porphyriai, because in terms of Cpni it only effects the EBi phase which are outside the cell i.e. not while they are parasitizing ATP and interrupting hemei. Probably the doubling up of azith is what cause the increased porphyria.

Amoxi does effect the bowel flora more, but this is precisely what your doc is trying to do, assuming that there is some pathogen in the bowel that needs to be gotten at. I'm not familiar enough with it's use in bowel infectionsi to even guess why amoxi, but that's something to ask your doc about. If your doc thinks this is the right step for your bowel symptoms I'd do it, and don't stop the doxyi/azith because these are what holds against the replicating cycle of Cpn. Doxy, azith and amoxi were the original Vanderbilt protocol, so it's right in line with CAPi treatment, just see to extra probiotics to resupply the flora.

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Please take probiotics if

Please take probiotics if you aren't already to keep good bacteria in your gut.  I have ibsi-c so can't go.  Doc told me to take 10,000mg vitamin c a day (comes in powder form so I mix in oj) and it took care of the chronic constipation.  Maybe those two things would help to keep you from stopping up again.

FMSi/CFS 1995. tinnitus">i, ibsi, sinusitis, EBVi, NACi 2400mg, valtrex, cortef, armour, doxy, biaxin, tinii, vita c 5 - 10,000 daily 

Lynn~Thanks for your

Lynn~Thanks for your suggestions ........ I do, and have been taking, probiotics.. I take DSL#3, ocassionally repleniss sachets, as well as daily "generic" acidophilis.  I have had constipation problems most of my life... but only since being on the CAPi had severe problems, that I have to closely monitor.  Perhaps the vit c would be helpful, too.

It just got out of control again because I was sick and in bed most of the time and not watching my diet. I actually just had a comprehensive stool analysis done last month.... I was very low (almost "0") on some of the Dysboitic flora, but I had NO yeast (yeah).

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni