Question about validity of "lighter" protocol for Cpn conditions
I admire the details of the Straton's and Wheldons' explanations about the ongoing processes during cpni infection. I have a few questions about it since I also have cpn infection as a result of respiratory desease the last winter (2006 New Year). Then it was discovered that I had pneumonia as a result of cpn bacteria. My condition was not so bad as some people having MS, my antigeni bodies test was 1:60 which is not so much, but I still had trouble to sleep and recover. I had irritated skin spots, digestion system deviations and so on and so on as it is explained by Dr. Wheldon and Dr. Straton there are great variety of side effects when a cpn infection is present. Anyway I didn’t know all that when I was treated and obviously my doctors were totaly unaware too - I WAS TREATED ONLY WITH DOXYi FOR 14 DAYS AND I WAS SAID “THE REST WILL RECOVER WITH TIME”. Well it didn’t recover. In April my condition went bad again and then I found cpnhelp.org and read all topics and the handbook. In July I applied the 14 day CAPi course that Dr. Wheldon advised to be applied after one year on regular CAP treatment fo MS and slowly to increase the time between the aplication of the treatment. There was great improvement and the improvement was taking place maybe 5 months after only these 14 days of treatment. I also was taking the suplements that Dr. Wheldon perscribed. Maybe my mistake was that I didn’t applied this course again after 2 months because wright now I feel again some symptoms of the CPN infection. My condition is not severe, but it still affects my social activity and the way I look to life. I want to kill this bug once and forever, but I have recieved no undestanding from my doctor and also he refused to read anything from internet on this topic mainly because of a lack of language skills which I offered to compensate. And I'm still afraid to cure myself on my own, my question to anyone is:
How can I kill this bug once and forever without those long lasting CAPs, because I think there is no risk for me if I take accelerated course with larger antibioticsi dose, since my condition is realy on the edge between good and bad.
Or maybe I have to apply those 14 days for 3 consecutive months and then again once again after 2 months. Give me a clue anyone. Unfortunately my mother also got the bug from me the last winter and she is in the same condition. I feel uncomfortable because there are so many people here which a are on CAPs for years, because of their very heavy and severe condition, but in order not reach the same state I’ll be very grateful for a short advice.
Thank you all, good luck
Mo
Sofia, Bulgaria
P.S.: something that I discovered is about the taking of NACi ...... I think that somehow the CPN activates its replication during sleep when the body is in rest .... so if you take the NAC right before you go to sleep and than early in the morning ... gives great effect to your condition .....I take ACC Acute (dissolvable powder, since there is no NAC in tablets in my country)
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I am not a doctor or even medically trained, so what follows is only for information, it would be better if you could get your doctor to inform him or herself a bit more about Cpni, as it is very difficult to anticipate who will have what reaction or need this or that treatment.
I will paste some links that may help: one is a letter that one of our members used to convince her doctor and the other is similar but in e-mail form. You could use either of these documents and translate them. They have the advantage of being shorter than other documents explaining Cpn on this site.
http://www.tiny.cc/145r4 Letter to doctor
http://www.tiny.cc/OxDbr E-mail to doctors
These were written for MS patients but they could easily be altered to suit your needs.
The people who are on the maintenance protocol take a short course of CAPi consisting of two bacteriostatics for two weeks and with a flagyl pulse for 5 days. This can go on indefinately to safeguard from re-infection. Here is What David Wheldoni's recommends:
***"The eventual aim is to give all three agents intermittently so that there is some respite from antibioticsi. This, the final leg of treatment, may entail a 14 day course of doxycycline and roxithromycin, with a five day course of metronidazole in the middle. This course is given once a month. After several months the intervals between the antibiotics may be cautiously extended. Rifampicin is not suitable for intermittent use, and azithromycin may be given instead.
Here is a graphic representation of a possible course of treatment. The details will vary according to suspected bacterial loadi:((((unfortunately the graphics did not paste into this box but you can see it at www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment)))))
"***
You might also like to look at the several threads that have been posted in the last couple of weeks about the action of high dose Vit D. Once again this is not something that should be done without consultation with a knowledgeable doctor, but at least you will have more information that you can provide him or her with.
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBSi, sinusitis, alopeciai, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Sophia- It's a little difficult to understand exactly the protocol you went on, but it seems to me that you simply have not been on a CAPi long enough to eradicate the bacterium. If your Cpni load is not as high, you might talk to your doctor about using Dr. Stratton's version of the protocol: adding in each medication gradually one at a time (doxyi, azith/roxithi, amoxicillan, flagyli) until you are doing all of them simultaneously, and then continue until you have not evidense of die-off; follow with a periodic course as described by Dr. Wheldon.
You should also get your mother treated at the same time so you don't reinfect each other.
CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 300mg Rifampin, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg mwf Azithromycin, plus 500mg Tinidazole 2x/day pulses every two weeks. Whew! That's a lot!
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
But yes, it does seem like "Mo" should do the full course of treatment, not just a week or two (nor even a month or two).
Ok ..... yes I do have some die-off reactions although its difficult to say because Flagil always causes a special taste in the mouth ... but yes I do feel unpleasant and uncomfortable, but its not severe condition ....... and here is one more question ...... can I take Azitromicin every day too .... why only MWF ..... Doxyi is more toxic than azitro, but I take it every day according to thish scheme .....
I also discovered that azitro is more hostile to cpni than doxy. I know that there is a kind of synergetic effect between those two, but wouldn't be better if I take larger dose of azitro .... 10x again
The Protocol was designed to make is sustainable and to optimise its performance. There is an alternative that you can take everyday, for instance you can replace Azithromycin with roxythromycin and take it everyday. Azithromycin has a longer life inside the body than Roxythromycin. Different people react differently to the two bacteriostatic antibioticsi, some people have more reaction to Doxycycline than to Azithromycin. For people with a heavy load of Cpni, any antibiotic can cause severe reactions, which is why the third antibiotic Flagyl, is only added when the other two are well tolerated and then it is cautiously added.
In both Ella (my daughter with MSi) and myself the Azithromycin was more difficult to tolerate. You might want to look here for a better understanding of how and why the particular antibiotics were selected.
With regards to the Flagyl (metronidazole/tinidazole), my opinion is that this is due mainly to its concentration in the blood stream. I know that other people think it is due to die off, so it might be an indication of the killing that is going on. The other symptoms associated with Cpn die off are, spaced out feeling, various levels of depression, flu like symptoms, aggravation of your symptoms, 'new' symptoms, fatigue etc... Different people have different symptoms, mainly I think, due to where the most severely infected sites are.
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBSi, sinusitis, alopeciai, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAPi 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Dear Sophia, I'm so sorry that you and your mother are living through this; we sympathize and empathize with your ordeal. At the same time, your questions give me the impression that you are seeking medical advice from us aimed at taking a fast and easy way out of Cpni infection. The fast and easy way out is not what Cpnhelp.org is about. While we swap information on our treatments, direct inquiries for information to existing text on the site, air our opinions, and support/comfort each other, we are not about giving medical treatment advice (especially on taking "shortcuts"). Finding the right doctor to properly treat you and your mother may be a particular challenge in your situation, but you impress me as an intelligent and resourceful person...please keep trying. In the event that you might desperately try to treat yourself and your mother, the only person who can be responsible for the treatment decisions you make is you---we can't and won't do it for you. Best wishes,
Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi) / Cpn indicated by reactions; Mpn, EBVi, CMV positive; elevated heavy metals; gluten+casein sensitive / Wheldon CAPi since Aug. '06 - doxycycline+azithromycin+flagyl pulses; antivirals; chelation, LDNi.
Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS). CAP since August 06, Cpn, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBV, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity.
Yes of course, I'm aware of that Cypriane ...... my goal is to build up understanding and gather some information in order to present it to a doctor of my choice and to be more prepared for reasoning ;)))) .......
and by da way .. 10x Michele .. very comprehensive material which I missed to read out ... 10x to JimK too for the efforts to summarize it ....... right now I have to think about all this to translate it and present it .... I'll be back with more questions ...... there is total misundestanding about the problem in my country .... I've been talking to the most important and famous doctors in my country ... and they are totaly unaware about the spreading mechanism of the cpni ...... thank you all again ....
and let the force be with you ...... I'll be back soon :))
When I'm just on NACi ..... I suffer from high flatulence ...... is it possible that this is a die-off reaction in the stomach and gut .......
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBSi, sinusitis, alopeciai, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAPi 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Mo- I have been told that I am full of hot air myself (gee, I hope that joke translates). Yes, a lot of Cpni infection is in the gut, and NACi appears to have some anti-yeast effect too in some studies. Gas and other digestive symptoms can result from die-off.
CAPi for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 300mg Rifampin, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg mwf Azithromycin, plus 500mg Tinidazole 2x/day pulses every two weeks. Whew! That's a lot!
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
Hi, Norman,
10x for your replies on my topic, It's interesting. Can you give me a scheme of treatment that you applied for example, with this gradual antibiotic addition and supplments. To my opinion if I take just one pill of Doxyi and wait 2 weeks.. there will be no reaction at all ...or you mean that I'm taking DOXY all the time during those 2 weeks ... There is an empirical evidence of my ability of taking all the medications at once since I've done this already for those 14 days on Wheldon CAPi ... this resulted in tremendous improvement but it is true that the improvement was taking place maybe five months after the those 14 days .... maybe if I take the medications gradually I'll recieve better results, but I have to take antibioticsi for longer time interval which may lead to additional complications like Candida etc. Dr Stratton says: Do as faster as you can but no faster than that! .... and that is what I'm trying to achieve. My idea is to make 14 day pulses with a month between on probiotics and NACi to repair gut flora and to limit possible renfection ... maybe 3 or 4 pulses or something ... of course consulting with doctor .. the only problem is to find the doctor ...
anyway I'll be very gratefull if you send me your scheme of treatment even if it is aproximate based on memories .. this is my mail: motronixco@yahoo.com .... thanks again .. take care ...
Mo
Please be aware that this is speculative, not based on any huge amounts of experience. It's the sort of thing I'm doing now, but that's about the only recommendation I have for it. I have no formal medical training. If you try anything like this, we'd like to hear what your results are. This is experimental treatment; it is like walking in the dark, where it is best to step slowly, and feel out the ground before placing your weight on it. (By the way, my experience is that doctors respond more favorably if you tell them outright that the treatment you want to try is an experimental one; if they have to figure that out by themselves, they'll wonder whether it is really some sort of quackery.)
Although I'm posting this publicly rather than sending it privately, other readers should be aware that this is the sort of treatment schedule that might be worthwhile for someone with a very light load of Cpni; it would be positively dangerous for anyone who has been suffering for years to try this sort of massive attack on the bacteria.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBSi, sinusitis, alopeciai, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAPi 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
MacKintosh,
Does the above scheme you gave me mean that you managed to remove the chlamydia for 6 weeks + Flagil? My load of chlamidia is realy low since I fill difference in my condition only by taking just NACi a few times. I think that my chlamidia infection dates back to about 1 year or 2. I have had acute flu, unlike anything else that I had before and since then is this fatigue, slowly increasing in time.
Norman,
I'll try to summarize your suggestion + my undestanding for massive attack of the chlamydia, possible to be applied for lower bacterial loadi and dangerous and inapplicable for more severe conditions like MSi and other chronic deseases resulted because of CPNi so everybody be aware of this !!!
Everyone feel free to copy paste and do some corrections with comments why so and so, also there are some dark areas in this schedule so make suggestions and pass by in order this topic to finish with the ideal treatment for light load of cpn. There is huge quantity of people who may find this result realy helpful. This is not schedule for MS so please do some corrections to the supplementsi I find them as quite large amount of add-ons. Any experts' and doctors' opinions are also very welcome.
Week 0: Preparational week
NACi 600mg twice a day (once in the morning and once before going to sleep) = 1200 mg / day
Michele's Vitamins and supplementsi at Meal time * (look at the bottom of page)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside ** (look at the bottom of page)
may extend the preparational week to 10 days or 2 weeks - this is to kill as much EBs as possible,
prepare the organism for what is going to happen and to replenish the resulted deficiencies
of vital organic compounds
The Attack
Week 1,2: NAC 600mg twice a day (once in the morning and once before going to sleep) = 1200 mg / day
Azithro 250mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (is this at meal time too)
Doxyi 150mg every day (saturday and sunday too?) at meal time
Flagil 400mg three times a day = 1200mg / day (begins after the 5th day for 5 days)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Meal time * (look at the bottom of page)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside ** (look at the bottom of page)
Week 3,4: NAC 600mg twice a day (once in the morning and once before going to sleep) = 1200 mg / day
Azithro 250mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (is this at meal time too)
Doxy 150mg every day (saturday and sunday too?) at meal time
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Meal time * (look at the bottom of page)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside ** (look at the bottom of page)
Week 5,6: NAC 600mg twice a day (once in the morning and once before going to sleep) = 1200 mg / day
Azithro 250mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (is this at meal time too)
Doxy 150mg every day (saturday and sunday too?) at meal time
Flagil 400mg three times a day = 1200mg / day (begins after the 5th day for 5 days)
+Niacini what dose a day and how it is spread? (is this after the 5th day for 5 days too?)
+Rifampin what dose a day and how it is spread? (is this after the 5th day for 5 days too?)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Meal time * (look at the bottom of page)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside ** (look at the bottom of page)
Week 7,8: NAC 600mg twice a day (once in the morning and once before going to sleep) = 1200 mg / day
Azithro 250mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (is this at meal time too)
Doxy 150mg every day (saturday and sunday too?) at meal time
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Meal time * (look at the bottom of page)
Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside ** (look at the bottom of page)
Week 10 Flagil Pulses 400mg three times a day = 1200mg / day for 5 days at 3 weeks intervals
until no die off reacions after that a few more pulses on Flagil
* Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Meal time (there are some corrections to it)
Vitamin B complex 1 tablet every day (very important food for the gut flora)
Vitamin B6 50mg every day (what is this for?)
Vitamin B12 sublingual at least 4 time a day (what is this for?)
Vitamin C 1g every day (isn't it bad taking it for more than 10 days straight)
Vitamin Di 1000iu two times a day in two pills = 4000iu/day (isn't this only for MS)
Vitamin E 400iu two times a day = 800iu (isn't this only for MS)
Omega 3 fish oil 1000mg every day
Even. primrose oil 1000mg every day
Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg every day
Alpha Lipoic Acidi 150mg every day
Coenzime Q10 200mg every day
Selenium 200mcg every day (isn't this only for MS)
** Michele's Vitamins and supplements at Bedside AM/PM (there are some corrections to it)
Magnesium 300mg at PM (before going to sleep)
Calcium 500mg at PM (before going to sleep)
Acidophilus dose? at AM an PM (on wake up and before going to sleep) what is this exactly
Turmeric 500mg at PM (before going to sleep) what is this for?
Chlorella 200mg at AM na PM (on wake up and before going to sleep) what is this for?
It's your turn guys. I'm looknig forward to the developing of this scheme. Wish you good luck.
Mo, nice work!
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Currently: doxyi & zithi -- continous; metronidazole -- 5 days on, 7 days off.
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
Mo, its a good idea, but maybe difficult to put a time scale on the treatment because it is v difficult to tell what kind of load of Cpni anyone has. DW recommends a minimum of 6 months for people who don't have a major disease. but probably more like a year and for people suffering from one of the major diseasesi the treatment could you go one for more than 2 years. The test to know if you have got rid of your infection is when you stop having reactions to the Flagyli.
Acidophillus: replaces good bacteria in the gut.
Chlorella: particularly good for people that cannot use activated charcoal for the removal of toxin and to avoid porphyriai. Good if you tend to be constipated.
Most of the supplementsi:you ask whether these are only for MSi, the supplementsi support the rebuilding of cells that have been killed by the CAPi. Some of them also have an antibiotic action, such as Vit D3. Everyone doing the CAP should take the supplements.
Most of the answers to your questions can be found in the handbook or by doing a search.
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBSi, sinusitis, alopeciai, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Your schedule has you starting niacini and rifampin at the same time. Do you have a death wish? Do you like pain? Please... one at a time! (First start one, then, weeks later, start the other.) And if you have a hard time with the first one, then don't start the second. Instead, wait until you've done a pulse that wasn't very bad, and leaves you wanting a bigger effect. I don't know which to tell you to start first, nor if it matters. Personally I started niacin first, but that is because, as a vitamin, it's available without prescription -- although the doses used here (1-3 grams/day) are far above the levels needed for its vitamin functionality; doctors who prescribe this much niacin (as some of them do, for the purposes of lowering cholesteroli) often give their patients regular liver function tests. And that's just for the niacin alone; you'll also be taking other stuff that requires liver monitoring.
I didn't find 600 mg twice a day of NACi (a total of 1200 mg/day) effective; it took 1200 mg twice a day (a total of 2400 mg/day) to really work on me (as judged by die-off effects).
I don't precisely know what the proper dose of rifampin would be. I'm on 600 mg, taken once a day. However, the Vanderbilt MS trial used a twice-a-day dosing schedule, giving the same total amount (300 mg twice a day). The half-life of rifampin is something like six hours, so even the twice-a-day schedule leads to lots of variation in blood levels. But, for lots of diseasesi (such as TB), the drug is just given once a day. I imagine that dividing the dose is better, but that's not necessarily so -- it might be the peak level that is important; and since rifampin is inconvenient to take (you have to avoid eating for two hours before taking it, and one hour after), and I'm lazy, I've stuck with the once-a-day schedule.
Don't start the rifampin at the same time you start a pulse; start the rifampin, wait a while to see what the effects are; then once you've determined that, you can start a pulse. (By pulse I'm always referring to the Flagyli.) Once you've started the rifampin, keep taking it until everything is over (or until you find that it's too much for you).
As regards niacin, there are a lot of different forms of it. For maximum Cpni-killing effect, you want straight niacin (rather than niacinamide or inositol hexanicotinate). Even of niacin, there are different types of pills: some are slow-release, whereas others are niacin powder. The second kind are more potent, since they give you the whole dose all at once. They also produce skin flushing which can be quite startling even when you know it is harmless; it looks and feels like a full-body sunburn. Have a look at previous discussions for more about this. I don't know how much to recommend, or on what schedule. Personally, I'm taking 500 mg of slow-release niacin twice a day, continually (not just during pulses). Then, when I feel a pulse needs more oomph, I take a capsule of niacin powder with each Flagyl pill. At the moment, though, I'm not doing this, since just rifampin alone increases the severity of a pulse to as much as I care to tolerate. Any more and I'd be vomiting and feeling feverish. At least that's my recent experience; I tried twice, and both times had to abort the pulse on the third day.
Stick to a CAPi Protocol - please do not design your own protocol unless you are a Clinical Microbiologist (specialist doctor) or similar expert. CAP uses drugs which should be used carefully not changed at a whim. Unless you are a patient of a CPni specialist please use the Wheldon protocol drugs including DWs timing for introduction of antibioticsi (ie slowly). This is especially important for MSi patients where die off could cause nerve damage and slow/reduce recovery.
In case you haven't noticed I am irritated. People could be confused by these 'revised' protocolsi. MS is a life long disease and the CAP is potential lifeline to a significant number of people. Please chat about revising CAP with large caveats and say not to be used for people with MS.
End of my rant ................... Mark
Mark Walker - Oxford, England.
RRMSi since 91, Dxi 97. CFSi from Jan03. DW Patient - Feb06, started emp CAP(DW) in Mar06, with Copaxone. Pharma Consultant (worked til Jan 03).
Mark Walker - Oxford, England.
RRMSi Nov 91, Dxi 97. CFSi Jan03. Copaxone + continuous CAPi (NACi, Dox, Rox) Feb06 to May 07. Met pulses from Jun06. Intermittent Abxi from June 07 onwards.
Ok, Mark,
The irritation is felt from the very begining of your note. The rant is taken into account, but not everybody has MSi and we still have CPNi infection aaaight. The very name of this topic sais lighter ( smaller ) load which excludes MS. Also at the begining of the "redesigned" protocol was said in bold that this could be dangerous for more severe conditions and everybody should be aware of this. But your note is taken into account and "not for MS" is cited.
Stratton sais: "Do it as faster as you can, but no faster than that."
that is all I can say
Have a nice weekend
Mo
Motronix, you wrote > Does the above scheme you gave me mean that you managed to remove the chlamydia for 6 weeks + Flagil?
I may not be understanding you correctly. Do you mean did I eradicate the cpni after only six weeks on antibioticsi? No, not at all. I have been taking all the vitaminsi and adjunct since September of 2005 (including 2400/daily of NACi) and started doxyi and azith 06 October 2005, began pulsing flagyli in November 2005 and plan to continue the full Wheldon protocol until at least October 2007, which will be two years. I will then do intermittent therapy indefinitely. For MSi, by the way.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
I would like to point out that what you term Michele's vitaminsi and supplementsi are in fact part of the protocol developed by Dr Wheldon. Since the time of writing this originally, the dosage of NACi has been upped. A lot of discussion takes place here and over time dosages are adjusted as experience emerges and as we find what works for us.
I would be cautious about putting a categorical timescale for a protocol as with Cpni the symptoms might well be minor (or even non existent) but you may still be carrying a heavy load. In the case of my daughter she had no symptoms to suggest that she had any kind of infection, and it is only once I knew enough about Cpn that I could look back on her life and pinpoint symptoms that indicated the presence of Cpn when she was as young 4. Similarly for me, I can say that I have been infected with Cpn since I was 11 and can look back on my life and see that most of my ailments can be attributed to it. Sinusitis, Asthmai, Alopeciai, painful periods, pre-eclampsia, endometriosis, cervical cancer, IBSi, peripheral neuropathy, high blood pressurei, sciatica etc etc. But no one knew; even now that my hair has grown back many doctor's would say that is the nature of the condition and that could still be true... Although I don't think so as the return of my hair has happened dramatically and rather more quickly than at any time before, added to this is the fact that I had had very little hair and not much growth for 8 years.
You appear to be a resourceful, rational and organised person, and striving to get some definitive answers. I have learnt one thing about a CAPi for the treatment of Cpn, nothing is definitive bar the fact that it works. Timescales, dosages and even to some extent the kinds of medication will change as time goes by, and depending on the person and the disease being treated. So keep an open mind about what you are embarking on.
Michele: on Wheldon protocol since 1st May 2006 for a variety of long standing ailments including IBS, sinusitis, alopecia, asthma, peripheral neuropathy, also spokesperson for Ella started Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006 for RRMSi
Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Yes, Michele,
I do undestand that. Righ now I'm 28 years old. I've always been in good health. I had no chronic deseases ever, no troubles with any organs. I always felt full of energy and had very well control of my body. Until the last winter though. It was discоvered that the last winter there was some kind of epidemic of Pneuomia caused by cpni. So except me there are a few more people who began to feel unusual sympotms the last year. They didn't have any chronic deseases and still don't and were always in perfect health. It was discovered that they have cpn too. So my goal is to obtain accelerated protocol attacking all phases ASAP and limit the spreading of CPN. So the treatment I'm looking for will not be applicable for more severe and chronic conditions indeed it would be very dangerous. And I understand Mark and his irritation. Even for our light condition there is no treatment shorter than 2 months but at least we can possibly eradicate for 3 months not for an year on antibioticsi - it is still a difference. Antibiotics can cause more problems if taken for longer periods of time than one can bare and it will be a pitty especially when there is no empirical need of taking them so long. I found a doctor and we are thinking about all this together. We'll gather the information once again and soon I will post a revised treatment of the one posted above, taking into account all the comments that were made after it and our particular condition that has to be treated. Once we decide to begin the treatment I'll let you periodicaly what is going on.
10x again Marvin,
very comprehensive as always :)).
Love you all,
Mo
Since I've already been a stinker this week, I'll extend that trend to this thread. I agree with Mark. While all of us practice our own minor alterations to either of the two protocols (for ourselves or our loved ones), we still either adhere rather closely to the established plans, or we embark on major variations under the guidance of our doctors. This website is used by medical professionals as well as CAPers, and it concerns me to think how they might view the direction of this thread or others like it.
The prepared text and threads on this site are becoming a tome of a sort . How many tens of thousands of denominations of religions are there in the world that are based on just a few tomes? Interpretations of those tomes can vary so widely that some of them barely resemble the essences of the originals. My vote goes for following the "magisterium" comprised of the CAP formulating doctors and those prescribing doctors who are "associates" of the formulators by virtue of their participation (which includes their professional interpretations and adaptations of the protocols). Please, let's not unravel ourselves in our infancy.
Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi) / Cpni indicated by reactions; Mpn, EBVi, CMV positive; elevated heavy metals; gluten+casein sensitive / Wheldon CAP since Aug. '06 - doxycycline+azithromycin+flagyl pulses; antivirals; chelation; LDNi.
Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS). CAP since August 06, Cpn, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBV, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity.