Prostatitis caused by Chlamydia family

Hello All,

I ama new member and I am in very bad confusion with prostatitis that I cannot find the root cause and then treatment. Here is my story:

First time in 1999, UTIi after intercourse. Cultured and the bacteria was E.Coli, treated by Cipro and then symtom free.

After that almost every year I was getting UTIi and treated by Cipro around the end of the year until Dec 2005, diagnosised by bacterial prostatitis and treated for 45 days first by Cipro but I felt that it does not improve my case so I swithed to Doxycline and Ofloxacin. Then I was symptom free for 7 months until again Dec 2006 after intercourse for the first time, I felt that my prostatei is inflammted, having the sensation of wearing a tide pants or having something heavy under the perineum muscle. Here my hell started until now:

- i started my investigation with visiting Dr Toth in NY. He performed an urethral swab after painful prostate massage and then later he calimed that he could find C. Trachomatis by Fleuscence antibody detection, an old test. He also perfomed TRUS and showed on the central zone of the prostate,scars or calcifications and he claimed again due to the chlamydia.

- I continued my investigation and perfomed PCR-DNA testi on semen and this time the answer for Chlamydia trachomatis was NEGATIVE. Note that DNA amlification is much precised. So what you make out of this????

- i did not stop here and continue by blood test for antibody detection for ALL FAMILY OF THIS GERM. In my surprise again, the clamydia trachomatis IGGi, IGM and IGA were under thershold except for CPNi for IGG. which you interpret it, I had in the past cpn!!!

- When I was child, I had Angina and asthmai. cpn could be this.

- I took 21 days of Proquin, is like Cipro but now it has been for 10 days I am taking doxycilne and I combine it with one prostate massage per week. But still no real improvement.

Here are my questions:

I saw a user Temple talking about dr Toth's method: echoguided drug inflitration. Who in this forum has perfomed this procedure with him? Please help me out here to understand better this.

Second, cpn might cause this inflammationi? In your opnion, do I ever had Trachomatis???

third, what is the best treatment assuming that I have one of these bacterias causing this inflammation? are they common treatment? I read that I need to combine antibioticsi. How do I know if is too late and this germ is already resistent to it?

Thank you for your help. please contact me...

Comments

> You menioned about

> You menioned about images? what kind of images that you refer to? is this microscopique image?

Yes. Immunofluorescence uses antibodies to stick light-emitting molecules onto the surface of bacteria (or other microscopic objects). So, the product is a light micrograph, a photograph taken through the microscope.

> what I can interpret from it?

It's hard to be certain. But the more glowing, probably-chlamydial objects in the micrograph, I guess, the more likely it is that those objects are causing symptoms, rather than existing harmlessly. But that idea is not an absolute truth. In a few known bacterial diseasesi (tertiary syphilis and tuberculoid leprosy), the amount of organisms found is extremely low. No one really knows how those diseases work, or whether there might be more bacteria present that can't be detected for some reason. It's also possible (speculative) that the bacteria cause autoimmunityi, an attack on your own body by the immunei system - in that case bacteria might not cause any driect harm, but one might be able to get rid of the autoimmunity by getting rid of the bacteria (or maybe not).

Unfortunately everything about an unsolved disease like pelvic pain is pretty complicated, uncertain, and unclear... but, unless you are satisfied with only treating the symptoms, you just work with the best ideas you can find, in case they may be right. That's sort of my philosophy of it.

> The protocol mention in this we site does not mention how to start from amoxillin to the end?

You might want to talk to a doctor with some experience with different cases. Here we generally like the ideas of Drs. Stratton and Wheldon. I'm just a biology student; I have no training in medicine. But I can tell you what ideas are at work in starting treatment. Most people here have added antibacterials one at a time, waiting some weeks to add each new drug. The idea at work is that some people get a big inflammatory response to the antibacterials, which may be caused by death of bacteria, resulting in immune-stimulating molecules. Many areas of the body are highly regenerable, or can otherwise handle serious amounts of inflammationi without sustaining permanent damage. Nerves (perhaps of relevance to your case) and the brain seem to be among the organs most likely to be permanently damaged in context of various medical problems. So starting everything at once could carry some risk of damage (for various reasons, this possibility is particularly concerning in MS). On the other hand, I personally have a "gung ho" tendency. I have CFSi, not MS, so I have been somewhat less worried about the whole problem, and also have not studied it in much detail.

Do your regular prostatic massages have something to do with the Manilla Protocol? That's of interest from my perspective. Wise thinks that the prostatei itself -- at least in many cases -- is not so important, and that its tenderness is secondary, not the root of the disease. He thinks that in most cases, the Manilla Protocol, involving regular prostatic massage, happened to also stretch and massage the muscles, tendons, and nerves around the prostate, and that this was probably what benefited many people who experienced improvement. In his opinion, it is much better to address those muscles and nerves and tendons directly, using a physiotherapist he thinks is qualified. (And he is *very* particular; he thinks that most physiotherapists in the field are not able to do the work optimally.) On the other hand, the Manilla-type people may have their own views, which I don't know anything about. As I said, I mainly just looked at Wise's views, and since they worked so well for me, I didn't spend much time looking at other people's views, or at published evidence for Wise's views.

Farock- Most use NACi

Farock- Most use NACi instead of amoxi. Read the following link for Dr. Stratton's most updated protocol:

http://www.cpnhelp.org/strattonprotocolupdate<

 If you use amoxi instead to start with, you start gradually, building up to 500mg a day, then twice a day. You may also then add probenicid to keep it in circulation longer. In a recent conversation with Dr. Stratton, he said that there are advantages to using it, as the penicillamine it breaks down into has other useful antibacterial effects, and disadvantages in terms of it's effect on bowel flora.

CAPi for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Flagyli daily (Continuous protocol)

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Eric, You menioned about

Eric,

 

You menioned about images? what kind of images that you refer to? is this microscopique image? what I can interpret from it?

 

Thanks,

 

Thanks a lot eric for this

Thanks a lot eric for this nice explanantion.

However cpni is one possibility for my symptoms.

In fact about this:

The protocol mention in this we site does not mention how to start from amoxillin to the end?

what dose need to be taken perday and so on...

 

Hi Farock, I once had

Hi Farock, I once had pelvic pain also - in my case as a part of CFSi.

Did you get to see the immunofluorescence images of C trach? That's very interesting. The difficulty with low-grade infectionsi, is that it's hard to say with certainty whether or not they are responsible for one's symptoms. I think C trach can sometimes infect people without causing any problems(?). I am not sure. I can't really search pubmed.com right now; I am on a really slow computer. Anyway, Dr. Toth has probably at least thought about the possibility of asymptomatic C trach, and probably knows a lot about it, so maybe you should ask him about that.

I would really recommend examining the David Wise / Rodney Anderson pathogenesis/treatment for pelvic pain. (Since it involves no drugs, it would be compatable with any antibacterial treatment you might decide to take.) I made a long post about it here a few months ago. Some patients/groups associated with Wise's ideas are dogmatically opposed to the idea of possible bacterial involvement (which have been explored by D Shoskes, etc, in addition to Toth). So, I don't recommend picking up their dogma that bacteria could not possibly be involved in any way. However, Wise & Anderson's Stanford Protocol was very successful in getting rid of my pelvic pain. It certainly doesn't work for everyone. They have papers in pubmed which address the safety and efficacy.

> I saw a user Temple talking about dr Toth's method: echoguided drug inflitration. Who in this forum has perfomed this procedure with him? Please help me out here to understand better this.

I guess some drugs are thought not to distribute very well into the prostatei... I think this is at least partly because of the prostate's unusual pH. I don't know much about it (or anything about Dr. Toth... since I had rapid success with the Stanford Protocol, I never learned much about people like Toth, nor did I ever read much of the medical literature on pelvic pain).

Good luck...

 As we don't have adequate

 As we don't have adequate tests, the only way you know is when you cease to have reactions to pulses, and then go onto an intermittent therapy as a preventative. Dr. Stratton challenges this with continuous therapy (all the agents simultaneously) and adds rifampin. If no reactions then you are done. This can take years if one's bacterial loadi is high to begin with, but could be shorter if your infection is more focal.

CAPi for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Flagyli daily (Continuous protocol)

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

I don't think you need to

I don't think you need to worry about stopping at this time.   I think that as you get better you will be able to make that decision at the apropriate time.   This treatment is not a quick cure.   Most people plan an intermitent therapy when they feel that they have recovered sufficiently.

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBSi, sinusitis, alopecia">i, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyli at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Thanks a lot,I read the

Thanks a lot,

I read the protocol but How do you know where to stop? how to stop the protocol? I mean, where we say cpni is destroyed?

Hi Farock, you could also

Hi Farock, you could also read a book called the Pot Belly Syndrome But Russel Fariss, who explains the problems of being infected with Cpni and other pathogens.   The title is slightly misleading, because you don't have to have a pot belly to be suffering from these organisms.

As Jim says, you need to read before you can undertsand the problem and no one can tell what your previous conditions have been but you and your doctor.

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBSi, sinusitis, alopecia">i, asthmai, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyli at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

 Farock- Take a look in

 Farock- Take a look in our research section. Dr. Stratton did find Cpni (not C trach) in cases of both prostatitis and interstitial cystitisi. If your prostatitis is due to Cpn, your would need both Flagyli and either NACi or amoxicillini in order to kill all the life phases of it. Cpn has "persistance" not because it becomes resistant to the antibioticsi, but because it survives in a life phase not affected by the antibiotic (although resistance can develop also). So the combination is to prevent it from surviving in another phase. Read through the Handbook and you'll understand this better.

No one here can have any valid opinion about whether you had C. trach. And we can't know whether the prostatei problems are Cpn. The option is to try an empirical protocol for Cpn, the CAPi, and see if this gets at the symptoms better than the antibiotic combo you've used, both of which only inhibit one phase of Cpn. 

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Flagyl daily (Continuous protocol)

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral