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The Big Model
By thundercat
Created 07/01/2008 - 12:33pm

  • Cpn-related research: Member-posted
  • Immune

Ok, so first of all, thanks for a great forum on this disease! Everybody, remember to help each other all he time, chl. pn. victims need all the help they can get, and together we are stronger!

 

Now, here's a couple of things I've thought about:

 

First, Chl. Pn. is not an uncommon infection,  in fact, around 50% ofthe five year-olds in an area can carry the infection, and when you look at people around the age of 70, 70-80% of them have antigens for chl. pn. in their blood.(1)

But there isn't millions of people suffering from the various symptoms of this disease, as it should be if it affected everyone. Something makes people more or less vulnerable to infection of chl. pn.

Experiments on rats show that they will develop arteroschlerosis only under the circumstance that they 1; are infected with chl. pn. and 2; they have a diet rich in cholestrol. (2)

This serves as a theoretical model for all diseasesi [1] associated with chl. pn.; that the infectuos bodies of chl. pn is omnipresent in most of the population, but that disease only develops from a (for the specific disease) supporting environment, and that different circumstances makes it easier for certain diseases to develop.

Such things that might allow the disease to spread is stress (in a immunological, not psychological sense).

Examples might be:

  • Other infection
  • Cancer
  • Unhealthy food or lifestyle
  • Lack of sleep
  • Stress (psychological)
  • Toxins from your surroundings
  • Food additives
  • Food allergens (from allergies not already caused by chl. pn. itself).
  • Steroids

The list can go on for long.

Also, the various manifestations of infection, i.e. the various disease, put certain stress on the individual.

For example: Chl. Pn. is thought to raise production of smooth muscle cells,that form part of the tissue that surrounds arteries and veins, the bladder, uterus, male and female reproductive tracts, gastrointestinal tract, respiratory tract, the ciliary muscle, and iris of the eye.

I've highlighted the respiratory tract because this makes an interesting point. Infection with chl. pn. causes the walls of the respiratory tract to grow and get thicker.

From a survival point of view  for chl. pn., anythig immunosuppressive is beneficial. By enlarging the membrande that surrounds all respiratory tract, you get worse breathing and possibly, the subject might even be at risk for snoring or sleep apnea, of the tissue gets big enough. Not surprisingly, a lot of people who have sleep apnea also suffers from asthmai [2], with the latter being "cured" or at least they get a substantial relief from asthmatic symptoms after the sleep apnea has been treated. 

I'm only guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if deep sleep deprivation is very bad for the immunei [3] system...

 

So, to highlight my point, my theory is that chl. pn. is a pathogen that is present in a large percent of the population, but that different circumstances allow the pathogen to spread enough to cause the different diseases.

Possible implications of this theory is:

  • That treatment shouldn't be meant to totally eradicate the pathogen, since the patient is very likely to get infected soon again.
  • Rather, treatment should bring bacterial loadi [4] down to levels that are manageble by the patients immune defence.
  • Adjunct to antibiotical treatment should the reason that chl. pn. was allowed to proliferate be removed. All causes for immunosupression should be removed.
  • Treatments against the symptoms of the diseases that follows infection of chl. pn. should not be immunosupressive (no steroids!)

 

(1) (http://medicinskaccess.se/images/arkiv/2_2007/twar.pdf [5])

(2) (see http://medicinskaccess.se/images/arkiv/6_2007/chlamydophila_pneumoniae_i... [6], sorry, but both articles are in Swedish!)

 

 About me:

I am not a doctor, but I have been sick since summer 2006 and have read a LOT on this subject. My symptoms were orthostatic ontolerance, inbalance, extreme exhaustion, severe depression, anxiety, severe confusion, intolerance to exercise, pain and tension over the chest, pain in throat, tension over my head, difficulty breathing sometimes, extreme anger or extreme feelings of hopelessness.

First I thought it was borrelia, and in the winter of 2007 I got in contact with a lyme clinic in Germany, where they diagnosed me with lyme and treated me with 12 weeks of intravenous antibiotics. After that my symptoms were somewhat relieved, but I still left with some exhaustion, respiratory problems and pain, some depression.

They took tests on chl. pn. as well, which showed some bacterial activity. According to my Doctor, the abxi [7]. for treating lyme does not treat chl. pn., but the chl. pn. infection would heal by itself now that the major infection had been treated. But still, six months after treatment has ended, I still have symptoms of Chl. Pn. infection.

I am now trying to get in contact with a doctor here in Sweden who can help me with the residuing disease!

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I agree that people can

Submitted by lee mcghee on Tue, 2008-07-01 14:04.
I agree that people can walk aroung with con for a long time or even forever and not know it. I have a couple people in my family that have fibro from cpni [8] and myco and thats why I think genesi [9] play a role in it. probably about 50 percent of the role. I dont know about environement. Supp and eating right does help but I was a health nut athlete and the cpn didnt care because It attacked me ful force and if it wasnt for the antobiotics I would be having some serious heart problems right now.

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Fibro, CFSi [10],  Myco, CPNi [8], Wheldon protocol, Zithro 250mg M/W/F/S, Doxyi [11] 100mg 2x day, NACi [12] 1200mg 2x day,  Flagyli [13] pulses 400 mg 3x day

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Twelve weeks of treatment

Submitted by MacKintosh on Tue, 2008-07-01 18:00.
Twelve weeks of treatment would not eradicate cpni [8]. Also, you need the correct 'mix' of antibioticsi [7] to kill cpn. Read the GETTING STARTED section (tab at the top of the page) to get a simple overview of what you'll need to do..

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The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

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