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Anti-biotics and MS recoverey
By r0n
Created 05/29/2008 - 9:49am

  • Speculations and theoretical queries
  • Multiple Sclerosis
Is the Anti-biotic treatment a cure for MSi [1] or a Suppressive treatment.   

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Hello r0n, A good place to

Submitted by Louise on Thu, 2008-05-29 10:24.

Hello r0n, A good place to start is with the patient stories tab at the top of this page. 

I've read you sign in page and see you are looking for information for your partner and found us by searching for Dr Wheldon and that she is interested in the antibiotic treatment and that you are from the UK. 

There is a lot to learn and no easy answers.   Start with the stories and then the getting started tab I think you will find them both very interesting.

Louise, CFSi [2]. CPnPositive. BbPositive. WheldonCAP began6/24/07. NACi [3],Doxyi [4], Roxi,FullTiniPulses. Intermittent Cholestyramine,1-2packets, at bedtime,most often with pulses,and as needed, for Phorphoria & liposacaride Endotoxini [5] Die-OffExperiences.

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Louise  CFSi [2], CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi [6] 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai [7] & Endotoxinsi [8] PRN, Doxyi [4] 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 25mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

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I know that you will get a

Submitted by Todybear on Thu, 2008-05-29 10:28.

I know that you will get a lot more educated answers, but I have been studying the protocol for a couple months and have been on it since May 1, 2008. You need to spend some time reading David Wheldons MSi [1] pages about Cpni [9] and it does a lot to explain what you are asking. There is no quick cut and dried answer. MS is a complex neurological condition and Cpn can cause the body to be drained and sick at a cellular level causing a huge variety of symptoms. Once the bacteria is erradicated, a lot of symtoms improve or dissappear. I don't think that the treatment claims to cure MS, but it has helped quite a few people to regain their health. The lesions that are present have diminished and it has put the disease in remission. I am hoping for that for me.  

SPMSi [10]< Supplementsi [11] & NACi [3], Doxyi [4] 100 mg, Azith 250 mg 3X/wk

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SPMSi [10]< Supplementsi [11] & NACi [3], Doxyi [4] 200 mg, Azith 250 mg 3X/wk, most suppliments, currently Flagyli [12] 1500 mg x 3 days once per month

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Welcome rOn, My answer to [13]

Submitted by katman on Thu, 2008-05-29 10:37.
Welcome rOn, My answer to your basic question would have to be in the affirmative for me personally - at least it is looking that way now - that it is a cure. It has been a long, very difficult almost four years, but I was well on my way to being a blind, blithering idiot in a wheelchair. Almost every day I was much worse mentally and physicaly and continued that way for months after beginning abxi [14]. Now it is reversed and every day, except when on flagyli [12] and its aftermath, I have slight inprovement. It has been worth every bit of hardship.

 

Rica PPMSi [15] EDSSi [16] 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAPi [6] Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi [4] 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagyl total 50 pulses NC USA

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Rica PPMSi [15] EDSSi [16] 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAPi [6] Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi [4] 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagyli [12] total 55 pulses LDNi [17] Rifampin 8/08 again NC USA

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  Depends what you mean by [18]

Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 2008-05-29 11:41.
 

Depends what you mean by cure.  If you mean no more exacerbations or stopping progression, then yes, it I suppose it is a cure, although permanent remission is probably more realistic.

I have completely stopped progression, but I still have an EDSSi [16] of two.  I can't run, but I can put together five foot tall canvases, cover them with oil paint and can think with a clear head.  Even if I got no better than this I would be happy because in the end my disease was progressing so fast that my neuroi [19] expected me to be dead by now, judging by what he told my husband, the Dr Wheldon you did a google search for.

It certainly isn't just suppressive treatment because I haven't taken any antibioticsi [14] for nearly  year now but am still showing signs of improvement, whereas suppression stops suppressing when you stop treatment...........Sarah

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow...........Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi [1] in June 2007, after nearly four years, three of which intermittent.   Still slowly improving and no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was 7, now 2, less on a good day.

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Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi [1] in June 2007, after nearly four years, three of which intermittent.   Still slowly improving and no exacerbation since starting. EDSSi [16] was 7, now 2, less on a good day.

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I think of it as "EFFECTIVE

Submitted by cypriane on Thu, 2008-05-29 20:07.

I think of it as "EFFECTIVE TREATMENT" that directly weakens and destroys  co-causative elements (Cpni [9], Mpn, Bb) and indirectly addresses other co-causative elements by knocking down the pathogen load and normalizing the immunei [20] system.  I have trouble using the word cure when I know that to ensure wellness, there are supplementsi [11] that should be continued for the rest of the former MSer's life.  I don't consider either the CAPi [6] or continued supplementsi [21] to be "suppressive."  NACi [3] is preventive of re-infection and supportive of glutathione levels.  Disease prevention and maintenance of sufficient glutathione is important for the good health of anyone, whether they have ever suffered from a chronic inflammatory illness or not. 

Our CAP prescriber seriously doubts that Cpn can ever be 100% eradicated.  Perhaps not, but it can be stomped so low that the subsequently improved immune system can keep it in check.  Despite the doc's attitude, our attitude is set for eradication.  Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi [10]).  CAP since August 06, Cpn, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi [22], CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi [23], elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

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Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi [10]).  CAPi [6] since August 06, Cpni [9], Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi [22], CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi [23], elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

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In other diseasesi, there's

Submitted by Norman Yarvin on Thu, 2008-05-29 23:25.
In other diseasesi [24], there's never any requirement that a 'cure' mean complete reversion to the way one was before the disease. We still speak of a 'cure' for TB, even if it does leave behind permanent lung scarring, or a 'cure' for cancer, even if the patient is left mangled by surgery or damaged by radiation. The standards for what constitutes a cure in Cpni [9] treatment should be no different. At this stage of the game, it is wise to speak somewhat tentatively of whether cures have been or will be achieved -- that needs to be left to the test of time -- but cures are definitely the objective here.

If for some reason the word 'remission' does have to be used, how about "remission with extreme prejudice [25]"?

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[1] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/6
[2] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/163
[3] http://www.cpnhelp.org/chlamydia_pneumoniae/supp
[4] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/39
[5] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/116
[6] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/168
[7] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/175
[8] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/26
[9] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/167
[10] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/183
[11] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/63
[12] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/44
[13] http://www.cpnhelp.org/print/4523#comment-33927
[14] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/38
[15] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/185
[16] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/171
[17] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/170
[18] http://www.cpnhelp.org/print/4523#comment-33931
[19] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/7
[20] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/64
[21] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/57
[22] http://www.cpnhelp.org/glossary/term/120
[23] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/58
[24] http://www.cpnhelp.org/taxonomy/term/34
[25] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate_with_extreme_prejudice