Cpnhelp.org - Chlamydia Pneumoniae Treatment

Daisy, thank you for posting this. Last night I decided to look out for something more potent
than my usual fare, and this morning I awoke to this. :o)

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Probiotics can be anti-inflammatory.

http://tinyurl.com/6lb4nh

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Here's another supportive link:

http://www.cancer.gov/Templates/drugdictionary.aspx?CdrID=486744 

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

VSL#3 Probiotic Alters Cytokinei Production of Unfractionated Splenocytes upon Stimulation with Cecal Bacterial Lysate: Immunomodulation by This Probiotic Combination

Craig J. Cender, Dirk Haller, Charlotte Walters, Ryan B. Sartor, Chapel Hill, NC

Background & Aim: Clinical and experimental observations have demonstrated efficacy of the probiotic compound VSL#3 in human as well as animal models of inflammatory bowel diseasesi. Although the precise mechanism by which these bacteria exert their beneficial properties remains unknown, recent evidence supports modulation of the host immunei response. We investigated this hypothesis by evaluating the cytokine profile of an unfractionated spleen cell population upon stimulation with cecal bacterial lysate (CBL) preceded by incubation with VSL#3 lysate (VSL3-L).

Methods: A lysate of both the probiotic preparation VSL#3, containing 4 strains of lactobacilli, 3 strains of bifidobacteria, and Streptococcus thermophilus, and the cecal contents from a syngeneic Fisher rat were prepared per standard protocol. Isolated spleen cells (2 x 106) from wild type Fisher rats were incubated for 18h with VSL3-L (25µg/ml) in the presence or absence of anti-rat IL-10 antibody (10µg/ml), followed by a 6h stimulation period with CBL (100µg/ml). TNF and IL-10 concentrations of the supernatant were determined by ELISA. Cell viability was controlled by trypan blue exclusion.

Results: Rat splenocytes demonstrated a dose-dependent secretion of TNF and IL-10 when exposed to CBL and VSL3-L, respectively. Time-dependent analysis of cytokine response showed early upregulation (3-6h) of TNF that peaked by 12h while IL-10 increase was steadily progressive over 60h, irrespective of the stimuli utilized. Incubation of VSL3-L prior to stimulation with CBL reduced mean (±SEM, n=6) TNF levels from 1233.65±208.64 to 268.03±41.87 (p=.0005) and increased mean (±SEM, n=6) IL-10 levels from 138.82±26.91 to 252.11±55.71 (p=.05). The addition of neutralizing anti-rat IL-10 antibody in the incubation phase did not significantly alter the TNF reduction observed in the presence of VSL3-L alone, a 68% vs. 77% reduction respectively.

Conclusions: TNF reduction was independent of the IL-10 upregulation observed in stimulated rat splenocytes when pre-incubated with the non-viable lysate of VSL#3. Alteration of the proinflammatory and protective cytokinesi by VSL#3 probiotic supports an immunomodulatory mechanism for this probiotic preparation.

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Corrina,

Cool article!  Thanks!

Re probiotics and inflammationi -

Estimates are that between 60% to 70% of your immunei system resides in your gut.  Most of it in the form of GALT (gut associated lymph tissue).  When you ingest food, drink, etc..., it is estimated that 80% to 90% of your immune system resides in your gut. 

It's always made sense to me that you can boost your body across the board by making sure your gut is populated with ample pro bacteria.  Think rebuilding my GI tract (and hence immune system) when I had very active and aggressive RA was key to putting myself in long term remission.  Took mega mega mega doses of probiotics in numerous formats to repopulate and rebuild. 

 

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Corrina,

THIS article is one of my latest faves on probiotics.  To me it's a powerful read.

It's titled "Cross Talk between Probiotic Bacteria and the Host Immunei System" and was published last year.

Here's the conclusion -

"In conclusion, it is evident that the analysis of the impact of probiotics on the host immune system has entered a new and fascinating phase of research and that this effort is likely to offer novel and useful means to modulate host immunity for protection from, or treatment of, a wide variety of human and animal disorders. ^"

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

I've been looking at this since Daisy posted it and what I have found out is: it is very expensive and it only has a shelf life of 7 days if kept at less than 24deg centigrade.   In this country a box of 10 sachets cost $30 plus another $16 for shipping in special cool packaging...

There are offers on more than one pack, but as they only last 7 days it would be counterproductive.   I wonder if it compares to Threelac which is also very expensive but has the advantage of being stable.

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Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

> There are offers on more than one pack, but as they only last 7 days it would be counterproductive

The product lasts 7 days if stored at room temperature. If kept refrigerated it lasts up to 2 years, so you can buy as much as you want as long as you refrigerate it.

 

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Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Our first shipment arrived yesterday, overnight delivery with a cooling pack inside. 

Since my husband doesn't have any GI issues, (knock wood) but we are working to head them off, he is going to take just one capsule a day for 225 Billion mixed strains of probiotics. 

We paid less than $43.66 US per bottle but I got it through a family business discount.  Even at $43.66 US per bottle with 60 capsules in a bottle, that works out to .73 cents US per day to get 225 Billion in one pill  plus the shipping

For us that still works out cheaper than the method to get to 200 Billion we were using.  The best though is that it's one capsule rather than the 20 plus my husband was swallowing to get some higher doses of probiotics.

Should probably throw this out there, dramatically increasing probiotics can cause a "die off" reaction.  Especially so if you have candida issues.  It's usually short lived.

Also - Garcia is right - refrigeration is the key to shelf life.

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Good luck, Daisy!    And let us know how this works...

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On Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Cpni in Rosaceai 01/06 - 07/07, On Vit D3 + NACi since 07/07 and daily FIRi Sauna since 08/07

Red - So far I like these !  I have been taking one a night and think I actually had a little die off reaction. 

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

The article is 'da bomb!' It's about time to have a more complex take on probiotics other than the notion that you take them in and the multiply. Thanks for that one. I'll be interested to here how your use of them goes as periodic candida has been part of the process over the years for me.

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CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 150mg BID Roxithromycin, Doxycycline 100mg BID, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3

Daisy -- Wow! This is excellent.  Couldn't have been more timely too.  Thank you so much for digging it up and posting the link.

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Daisy, how did you get such an excellent price for these?

I could not find the caps or powder in Canada so I ordered some powder from the states... I hope I get them quick enough to still be viable! 

 

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Twickle - Try  this page for the pricing of 43.66 US for 6 or more bottles of VSL #3

http://tinyurl.com/2aokf9

 

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Think this is a reasonably well done trial demonstrating some striking results from the VSL3

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1773918

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Thanks Daisy.

The folks I originally ordered the packets from refunded my payment because they were out of stock.  While the site you link to is US only, they've shown the CDN number to call. I wish it was easier to cross-border shop in North America.  I'll give them a ring on Monday and maybe I'll finally have some success in getting some of this! ... I really hope I can get the caps, I'm not so great with powder drinks.

How is this is working out for you and your husband?  Ever since you posted about this I've doubled my regular probiotic brand intake, in anticipation of receiving my VSL#3. 

Thanks again,
Corinna

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Decided to place an order for capsules. 

In the end I ordered two bottles through www.sigmatau.com 

On check out the shipping was credited back (essentially no charge for 2 day shipping to my state.)  I gave my MD info, thought that he might like to know about this high power probiotic formulation.  No explaination for the credit given.

 What I did find upon checkout was a european customers website www.st-hs.nl I think you need to read or translate to Dutch or would that be Flemish? Seems there is also a Francais translation too, digging in deeper and showing my ignorance here, please forgive!

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Louise-CFSi, CPN+/Bb+ Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine1-2pksHSforPorphoria& Endotoxinsi, Doxy100daily,Roxi300BID,Tini500mgBIDpulses,VitD3-4000IU,MagnascentIodine,{S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand],+Pyruvate3.75G+SAM-eForEnergy}

Corinna I have had the same price problems in the UK. It is really v expensive at $52 for 10 sachets. May try Threelac instead I have used it before but not since starting the CAPi and it is also a high quality probiotic but it does not need refrigeration, unfortunately it comes as a powder, but does not need to be disolved in water you just empty it into your mouth and it let it disolve, a bit like 'sherbert', very pleasant....

Checked out that site Louise.  It is Dutch and there is a French translation but no price... So we will have to e-mail to get a price and strugggle with the payment thing...  

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Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

UK site for VSL#3 here

http://www.vsl3.co.uk/

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Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMSi Feb 4th 2008.

NACi 2400mg. All supps. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg. Metroi 400mg.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008. First pulse June 2008

Andesine, L14.95/10packets each packet equals 2 capsules so each packet is equal to 2 capsules could be split over 1 to even 4 days and still be very much more concentrated to what I am currently taking.  I would have to look at exchange rates you folks are more aware, certainly.   STill the concentration is a mega increase and even taking much less and stretching it over longer time frame would be so much more, and stretching it out l could even be be cost effective in the end.   

I want to be more proactive for my GI flora, will explore this for a few months with this order should arrive mid next week. Will see how I need to work with it to make it work for me .  

 I do, once again eat yogurt and kefir yet there is often an energy dip for me that follows. I asume it is the lactose, however whatever the cause,  I shift to energy dip easily ( have for more than 30 years) I have chased many solutions, many help.  Being dairy free and gluten free used to be my primary solution and did help, just more to juggle these days with this CAP and moving into year 2. 

Thanks Daisy for sharing the order info and your links to science related to it.      

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Louise-CFSi, CPN+/Bb+ Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine1-2pksHSforPorphoria& Endotoxinsi, Doxy100daily,Roxi300BID,Tini500mgBIDpulses,VitD3-4000IU,MagnascentIodine,{S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand],+Pyruvate3.75G+SAM-eForEnergy}

Yes, I visited that site, but on top of the £14.95 you have to ad £2.23 VAT (our local sales tax) and shipping costs of about £8.   I could not check that out exactly but that is what other sites charge.   So that makes it rather more expensive than at first sight.  

I have just ordered XtraLac from jivadahealth.co.uk and will let you know how I get on with it.   It has the advantage of begin much cheaper, £50 for two months instead of £50 for two weeks and being stable at room temperature.

 

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Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

Michele, see my link in the next post. They have a special on until the end of the month. If you buy 3 packs (30 sachets) you get them for £9.90ish per pack.

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Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMSi Feb 4th 2008.

NACi 2400mg. All supps. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg. Metroi 400mg.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008. First pulse June 2008

450 Billion is a lot of of flora per packet! 

My current  Garden of Life brand Primal Defense "Ultra" formulation 60 capsules probiotic blend has 5 Billion per capsule and costs in the $40US range.

After a month or so of using it I will have some comments regarding the pros and cons for me.

Try this site  http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/order-international.asp 

found it with my confirmation.

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Louise-CFSi, CPN+/Bb+ Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine1-2pksHSforPorphoria& Endotoxinsi, Doxy100daily,Roxi300BID,Tini500mgBIDpulses,VitD3-4000IU,MagnascentIodine,{S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand],+Pyruvate3.75G+SAM-eForEnergy}

Here is the profile of Threelac: 

What are the ingredients in Threelac?
I would like to know all the ingredients in Threelac.

Bacilus Coagulans (200 million CFU)
Bacilus subtillus (25 million CFU)
Enterococcus Faecalis (25 million CFU)
Lemon juice powder
Refined yeast powder
Fiber

What are the ingredients in VSL#3 (  per my order and started yesterday)

225 Billion live lactic acid bacteria per 2 capsules

Streptococcus thermophilus

Bidfidobacterium breve

Bifidobacterium Longum

Bifiobacterium infantis

Lactobacillus acidophlus

Lactobacillus plantarum

Lactobacillus paracasei

Lactobacillus debruckii subsp. bulgaricus

 

My VSL#3 order arrived very well packed, inside a styrafoam cooler inside a sturdy cardboard box with 5 frozen gel packs the ones on the bottom of the cooler were solidly frozen, those towards the top very cold and beginning to melt exterior cartons and bottles were quite cold to touch, they were protected by a siplock bag to prevent dampness.

I started on yesterday , and took two caps today so a full dose.

So far no untoward effects noted so far to report.

The service was excellent and the shipping on two bottles turned out to be credited back.

I am hoping to tolerate this one more consistently. 

 

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Louise-CFSi, CPN+/Bb+ Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine1-2pksHSforPorphoria& Endotoxinsi, Doxy100daily,Roxi300BID,Tini500mgBIDpulses,VitD3-4000IU,MagnascentIodine,{S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand],+Pyruvate3.75G+SAM-eForEnergy}

Is is possible to overdose on probiotics?  Does anyone know how your body deals with getting more than it could use?  Perhaps there is no upper limit to good flora intake?

Cheers,

Marysia 

Louise - Glad your order came safely and appropriately.  Just checking did you mean 225 Billion per 1 capsule and 450 Billion per 2 caps?  I know they offer several different products - just curious.

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Caps are not available in Canada. Hrmmph!

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Corinna | GFAi. Wheldon Protocol: 4 – 8/08. Stepping back to recoup. Prednisone, Tramadol, Probiotics.

Louise, my doc put me on the specific carbohydrate diet and their is a way to make your own yogurt which I am making now.  The bacteria eats up the lactose because you heat it for 24 hours instead of the few hours the commercial yogurt makers do.  I use a rice cooker pot with the inside taken out.  It has a thermostat control on it and I just use glass jars.  I do have to check the temperature from time to time because it has to be between 100 degrees to 110 for 24 hours.  You can order the book online. scd.com I think or just type in special carbohydrate diet.  I eat a lot of yogurt now.  Of course, the diet is hard but I'm only going to be on it 6 - 8 months.  Have to get through Thanksgiving and Christmas!!!

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FMSi/CFS since 1995. tinnitusi, ibsi,  chronic sinusitis, EBVi, HHV-6

 NAC 600mg 2 x day

I started on vsl#3 last week.  I have been feeling achy, brain fog, tired a lot so maybe it's causing some die-off.  I got the capsules which are 225 mg each and I'm taking one twice a day.  I have ibsi and thought it might help, also much candida and am on a special diet for yeast.  We'll see how it goes.  The price isn't anymore than the Flora Q I was taking and it has less good bacteria so vsl#3 seems good.

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FMSi/CFS since 1995. tinnitusi, ibsi,  chronic sinusitis, EBVi, HHV-6

 NAC 600mg 2 x day