Plaquenil Plus Antibiotics Query

There has been some negative discussion lately on this site about using Plaquenil in combination with antibiotics.  Poking around on the internet, I find that this combination is not that unusual.  Also, there's information on the use of it to manage porphyriai symptoms in the Cpni handbook (generic name is hydroxychloroquine).

More particularly, I'm interested in this because someone I know who has Lupus has been taking Plaquenil for a few years and has enjoyed better success with it than with any prior treatment.  She has been reading information on this site and on rheumatic illness sites that present antibiotic treatment information.  She has worked herself up to the full dosage of NACi with nasty die-off reactions.  I'm not sure she would be willing to give up the one best treatment she has used thus far, and if I had Lupus, I might feel the same. One of her great aunts died from Lupus. 

Continuation of the Plaquenil while doing this CAPi is something she might go for.  An additional and critical part of her scenario is a history of alcoholism, though she has been sober for several years now.  Her actual liver condition is unknown to me.  Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.  Thanks,

Joyce~caregiver and advocate for SteveJ (SPMSi):  started abxi 8/21/06

Well, I know about one person, who selftreated himself for lyme by combination plaquenil plus azithromycin. He was in very bad condition and now he is asymptomatic for few months. That is all. I personally stay with W. protocol. There is a lot of protocolsi about longterm usage of abxi combination against intracellulari organism. So you can investigate it. Donta (plaquenil +macrolid), Bozsic (Cipro+doxyi), Burrascano, Gasser...I do not remember all. Also read online book by Hellenthal-very interesting.

http://www.julius-hellenthal.de/

Prague, The Czech Republic, On Wheldon protocol for Cpn and Mycoplasma since 02/18/2006.

I'm the one here who has Lupus and I was told not to do it (plaquenil and antibioticsi) by my previous rheumatologist (who also, by the way, told me that there was no way my Lupus had anything to do with any "infection").  So suffice to say - I may not have gotten the best info.  I wound up never taking plaquenil or anything else they offered me.

Dr. Powell and I briefly discussed Plaquenil so we'll see if he adds it to my protocol.

Kristin

David and Kristin, Married Forever, on CAPi for FM and CFSi with Dr. P. Sacramento, CA

Btw: I think Hellenthal´s online book should be added to our archiv. http://www.julius-hellenthal.de/en/hellenthal_en.pdf

Prague, The Czech Republic, On Wheldon protocol for Cpni and Mycoplasma since 02/18/2006.

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFSi and many problems 30 years

Well for goodness sake, I am all for plaquenil if your doctor is on board. I took it myself for about 2 years and yes it is great for rheumatic disease and fairly safe with some caveats and monitoring. Any objections I have had relate to people ordering it off the internet and using it that way without guidance and direct supervision just to throw it at the protocol based on one preliminary research paper we posted. It is a safe drug but it can cause eye problems and must be monitored regularly so that you can stop it immediately if such should develop to preserve eyesight.

On this site we are not into recommending everything we offer in research literature or that is seen as a possible adjunctive medication to be added to the protocols, though awareness of these things, like knowing that plaquenil might make cystic borrelia more susceptible to macrolide antibiotics is good to know.
I have rheumatic disease as well (rheumatoid) and may add it back to my regimen as my antirheumatic drug. I talked to my MD today about it because I sent her that interesting research and she is attending a conference at which the Brorsons will speak in a month. In the case of a person with lupus I would imagine it might be a good choice if her doctor wants it for her and it sounds like he might based on her success, and the fact it is also anticystic appreantly just makes it even better. Goodness many of us are hedging our bets by remaining on other drugs anyway, I am taking copaxone for my MSi as well as abxi.

I think the fact we post research related to CPn disease needs to be understod as simply "FYI" it's not stuff we expect people to make changes based on, for example everyone should not go make an appointment and talk to their doc about plaquenil, nor should a paper that says that high doses of aspirin are helpful cause everyone to rush out and get aspirin tablets. We post this stuff cause we all on CAPs are curious people and we look for ongoing support of the idea since it is not yet proven and our site is both a support site for patients and a site dedicated to making it easy to look into CPn disease if you are a medical practitioner. If a doctor comes here we want them to be able to read that plaquenil is helping burst cycstic forms of Bb because --tada! it's possible that people having success with plaquenil are actually having a different effect than just "antiinflammatory" in their rheumatic disease. It's a stretch and a speculation, but it is interesting if these buggy things are your bailiwick. It may also be of interest to you, how cool if you are a person with Lupus taking plaquenil, it might do double duty for you if your doctor wants you on it still.

So the reason for posting and announcing this stuff goes beyond the simple issue of what should I take today. The issue of what should I take today should be guided by your doctor, and that person guided by the protocols as set forth by Dr Wheldon and Dr Stratton as well as your personal situation, including issues like lupus and what helps you. I hope that helps!
marie

On CAP since Sept '05 for MS, RAi, Asthmai, sciatica. EDSSi at start 5.5.
"Color out side the lines!"

On CAPi since Sept '05 for MSi, RAi, Asthmai, sciatica. EDSSi at start 5.5.(early cane) Now 6 (cane full time) Originally on: Doxyi 200, Azith 3x week, Tinii cont. over summer '07, Revamp of protocol in Summer '08 by Stratton due to functional loss; clarithro

What Marie said.

Not much to add, you covered it so thoroughly Marie. Thanks!

If your Lupus friend is doing well with plaquinal and it is being well monitored by her doctor, there is absolutely no reason to stop it in order to start a CAPi. It has anti-cpni effects (which could be why it is helping her) as well as alkinalizing the cell compartments, managing intracellulari iron distribution and can be helpful in porphyriai. Her NACi reactions are a pretty good indicator of big EBi load, so the plaquinal may have given her a head start on bringing her Cpn load down.

David has started a patient very sensitive to the abxi on straight aspirin before, using it to work up to the abxi. So many paths are available. 

Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Chlamydia pneumonia in Chronic Fatigue Syndromei & Fibromyalgiai- Currently: 150mg INHi, Doxycycline/Zithromycin, Tinidazole pulses. Northern Ohio, USA

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Which David?  Not mine, I think.  Tinii talk, I guess.......Sarah

 

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow  Berger.

Started the Wheldon regime in August 2003, due to very aggressive SPMSi.  Moved to intermittent therapy after one year.  In 2006 still take this, two weeks every two months.  EDSSi was about 7, now less than 2

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Not David W? I'm sure it was one of our expert Cpni doc's. I'm sure I didn't make it up, but one can never be certain under the influence of Tinii

Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Chlamydia pneumonia in Chronic Fatigue Syndromei & Fibromyalgiai- Currently: 150mg INHi, Doxycycline/Zithromycin, Tinidazole pulses. Northern Ohio, USA

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

I would certainly talk to a physician about taking plaquenil.  I remain intrigued by its effect after only taking it for a week.  In fact once I'm over my fertility treatments I may try to get my doctor to consider it for me.
Started CAPi April 2005, right leg motor function now worse
"Not David W?"  No, not he, I asked him........Sarah
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Well, it was probably the other David Wheldoni... This is a bit like the argument that William Shakespeare did not write those plays, but that it was by another man with the same name...

Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Chlamydia pneumonia in Chronic Fatigue Syndromei & Fibromyalgiai- Currently: 150mg INHi, Doxycycline/Zithromycin, Tinidazole pulses. Northern Ohio, USA

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Maybe it is work of dark urine evil? He wanted to confuse you as he usually does to his victims. I have not heard about him for quite a while..

Prague, The Czech Republic, On Wheldon protocol for Cpni and Mycoplasma since 02/18/2006.

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFSi and many problems 30 years

Or maybe someone named Marlowe actually wrote all of Willie's plays and recommended the aspirin too.  Seriously, though, thanks everyone for the comments.  I'll give her a ring now to tell her to look up this thread.

Joyce~caregiver and advocate in Dallas for SteveJ (SPMSi):  started CAPi 8/21/06

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

The book by Hellenthal is a great find.

Combined Antibiotic Protocol for chlamydia pneumoniae in fibromyalgia, interstitial cystitis, sinus: minocycline,Zithromycin, Tinidazolei

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazole 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

I agree Janice, and thanks Lala for that Hellenthal link.  I've already alerted chuck to look into it, as it addresses subjects he and I have pm'd about.  It's always good to know that there are publications circulating out there that support/parallel our view of the microbial world as it affects health.  Joyce 

 

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

I was on plaquinel before starting the abxi protocol. Getting my abxi rx through Vanderbilt University, before starting this regimen I was taken off plaquinel and rx'd low dose methotrexate (60mg 1x week). I did not ask why, but the effects of the methotrexate seem to be more helpful to my sxi's.

Well, Marie...Looks like I will be joining you in the RAi world. I just began taking Planquenil today as per Dr.P's intructions. He thinks I do have a case of RA. I had my blood tests done on Monday this week and will see what they say but all the symptoms point in that direction.

It was my bad luck to encounter EBVi on a visit to my dentist's office in mid August. Given the 4-6 week inccubation period for adults with EBV and tests that revealed an acute and recent infection at about that time, I can only think that that's where I picked up the infection. I then went on to find several research papers linking EBV to RA. I am probably genetically suseptible (grandpa had it) and just needed the right trigger.

So now I'm on Planquenil as I refused to take any steroid that would damage my immunei sysytem. Dr. Powell also thinks there also may be an atypical mycobacterial infection that is lurking within such as Mycobacterium Kansasii. (I'm still having some lung congestion and my joint swelling seems limited to the right wrist and both knees). So I'm back on INHi and another antibiotic.

How are you feeling after your surgery? Did you notice a real improvement at the two week mark?

hope you are well,

Raven

CAPi since 8-05 for Cpni and Mycoplasma P. for MS and/or CFSi. EBV since 8-06. RA since 9-06 

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpni. CAPi since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NACi,BHRT, MethyB12 FIRi Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

Oh Raven, I'm sorry! I was not hoping for any company in the RAi camp and I am sorry that you have that diagnosis now too. Good thing you have such good medical care! I can tell you my RA has turned out to be not nearly as bad as my mom's which is terrible and crippling. I'm sorry to say though I have not had it clear up at all yet on abxi treatment.

I think the research on RA and EBVi is kind of tentative as the fact of the matter is that once infected with it the B cells carry the virus for life, and RA joints have b cells in them, therefore it is possible that mere presence of b cells (to respond, say, to an intracellulari infection of mycoplasma or something like that) would of course cause an upregulation of EBV from the joint fluid because b cells do not ordinarily belong in the joint space. The research is at this point of course incomplete and these ideas are speculative. All of that could also be said for MSand the EBV connection. Plaquenil is easy to live with I hope it helps you well, of course we have some research in the archives that indicate it is probably beneficial for us working from the intracellular model too.

I am getting better. I was surprised at how fatigued it made me to have surgery. I am still intoleratnt of too much activity, but I feel pretty good otherwise! I'm just like a little kid I need a nap and can't combine activities say to shop and go to work for a couple of hours.

Write me anytime you like in PM if you want moreon the ra stuff. We do have some archived arthritis papers in the research section...
blessings
marie

On CAPi since Sept '05 for MS, RA, Asthmai, sciatica. EDSSi at start 5.5. Currently on: Doxy 200, Azith 3x week, Tini 2x month, all supplementsi.
"Color out side the lines!"

On CAPi since Sept '05 for MSi, RAi, Asthmai, sciatica. EDSSi at start 5.5.(early cane) Now 6 (cane full time) Originally on: Doxyi 200, Azith 3x week, Tinii cont. over summer '07, Revamp of protocol in Summer '08 by Stratton due to functional loss; clarithro

I have had cpni but don't know if I still have it.   Diagnosed with fmsi, cfsi, mcs yet I am extreme.   Have also had CMV, EBVi, Ross river, glandular fever, barvon forest, staf so I presented many of these protocolsi here to my doctor.   After 19 yrs I am much worse.   My doc didn't like many of the protocols you are all using with some success I see.   He chose the one that had plaquenil just for it being less toxic.    But I am only taking it in the evening.   I think the antibioticsi are meant to be taken twice daily if I really want to kill off whatever is killing me.

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