Cpnhelp.org

I was the moderator at www.asthmastory.com, until the forum was abruptly shut down by the site owner. I now have a blog at http://infectiousasthma.blogspot.com/ but wanted to share my own success in treating the chlamydia pneumoniae that was causing constant sinus infectionsⁱ and asthma.

I had asthma for 33 years and was sick four to six times a year, requiring antibioticsⁱ and prednisone. My illnesses included bronchitis, pneumonia and sinus infections. In desperation I began doing research and discovered that Dr. David L Hahn began researching the link between asthma and chlamydia pneumoniae about fifteen years before I discovered him. I then began doing research and found other studies came to the same conclusion about bacteria sometimes being the cause of asthma and other diseasesⁱ. www.immed.org was one such site. Taking my medical records with me, I went to see Dr. Hahn who decided to treat me using his protocol, with the hope that my asthma might be improved. His protocol is 3 days of Azithromycin at 500 mgs, followed by weekly doses of 750mgs for a total of twelve weeks. Patients using this protocol can see improvement up to a year after following it. Well, here it is more than four years later and I've been asthma and asthma-med free all this time. Once we eradicated the cpn, the asthma was totally resolved, as were the sinus infections. Even my allergies improved a lot. We've since seen my son's exercise induced asthma cured, as well as the asthma of people all over the world.

While blood tests are not conclusive, Dr. Hahn did test my titers using both serologyⁱ testing and dna testing (polymerase chain testing). The dna tests came back negative, the serologyⁱ tests indicated that the titers for both mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae were out of the normal range. It is the opinion of Garth Nicholson (www.immed.org) that when the bacteria has been eradicated from the body, the titers go back into the normal range. In my case, the titers for chlamydia pneumoniae went back to normal but the titers for mycoplasma did not. Obviously, in my case, the sinus infections and asthma were caused by the cpn, not the mycoplasma. Still, I'd like to get that eradicated, as well, because playing host to any bacteria can lead to disease.

I'm posting this with the thought that it will help others, not only by giving them a possible solution to their health problems, but also by giving them hope in the mean time.

Rica PPMS EDSS 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAP Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyⁱ 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagylⁱ total 44 pulses NC USA

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3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxⁱ protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amoxicillinⁱ 1000, Doxyⁱ 200, MWF Azith 250, flagylⁱ 1000. Caffeine pills with AM abxⁱ Began Sept 04 PPMSⁱ EDSSⁱ 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1

Well, I think in my case it did a great job of hiding for 33 years.  My asthmaⁱ began when I was a teen, right after having pneumonia.  After four more bouts of pneumonia, yearly bronchitis and sinus infectionsⁱ, and massive amounts of daily meds for asthma and allergies, I think it hid itself well for a long time.  I do believe, however, that asthma caused by bacteria is much easier to deal with than other auto-immuneⁱ diseasesⁱ requiring the big guns for long long periods of time.   We don't know why the bacteria attacks one part of the body in one person versus another part of the body on another, but I believe that what it attacks means either a quick fix, as in my case, or a much longer one, as in the cases of so many of you here. 

I'd also like to add that in some cases where Dr. Hahn's protocol did NOT work, they tried the protocol of Dr. Fred Waghshul (in Ohio) and it did work.  His is a combination of antibioticsⁱ and can take anywhere from nine months to more than a year of antibiotics taken in doses that are either daily or several times a week.   I'd say I was lucky that my cpn settled where it did, but the quality of my life was miserable for 33 years, so it's hard for me to be all cheery about it.

Hi Maureen and welcome to the site.  Out of curiosity, I did a quick google search for Dr. Fred Waghshul (in Ohio).  We don't normally mention the names of doctors who have not made themselves public, but, as the site administrator of asthmastory.com did exactly that, I'll post the only thing I could find on him other than a listing/rating source.  This is the plug:

Jim Site Admin Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 189

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:35 am    Post subject: Miamisburg (Dayton) Ohio area FRED WAGSHUL, M.D.  ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY CENTER OF SOUTH DAYTON,  455 Byers Road, Miamisburg, Ohio 45342  937-859-5864 I spoke with Dr. Wagshul on the phone and he told me he's treated between 10,000 to 15,000 with long term antibioticsi and has had a 90% success rate.  He also highly recommended Dr. Garth Nicolson

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This doctor sounds like he might be one of ours.  Do you happen to know any details of his protocol?

I find your post very interesting from the the viewpoint of my own health problems.  My chronic respiratory infectionsⁱ started with chronic tonsilitis as a child.  For some mysterious reason, my tonsils weren't removed until age 14.  Then the repetitive sinus infections started and stayed.  The bronchitis incidence over time progressed from rarely to about every 2 years.  The tracheitis was horrible, because it makes you cough until you throw up...that happened only once, but it left me with a chronic dry cough.   The walking pneumonia has happened at least twice in the past 9 years.  I can't say I've ever had an asthma attack, but I've experienced countless instances of coughing/strangling, unable to speak or catch my breath, red in the face, eye-squirting fits.  Is that an asthma attack of some sort or a pre-asthma symptom? 

Anyway, the reason I've related all that is to establish my history of chronic respiratory infections.  Several months before starting the CAP, I had occasion to take doxycycline for a different reason.  My respiratory reactions to the bacterial die-off were very intense, scary actually.  From all appearances and thanks to some of the supplementsⁱ I have been taking from before that time and that I am still taking, my Cpn population was held at the reduced level following that short course of doxycycline.  I began the CAP 3 months ago, and though I have experienced some respiratory symptoms associated with Cpn die-off, they have been mild.  Next weekend, I will do my first flagylⁱ pulse, so then we shall see a clearer view of the current status of respiratory involvement.

Now, for my point...it may very well be that someone with a chronic respiratory Cpn infection can enjoy a rather swift recovery on that front (provided they have not advanced to COPD).  But there is much more to consider.  Cpn is initially a respiratory infection, but it moves on from the respiratory system to infect many other parts of the body.  Your comments reflect that you are aware of this.  Surely, some of the asthma patients treated by Drs. Hahn or Wagshul have some other health problems that are linked to Cpn.  Is there any reporting on the status of those other health problems in the months or years following those protocolsⁱ?  By the way, my major die-off reactions on officially starting the CAP were extreme fatigue, ear pain, and inflammationⁱ at old surgical scars.  Those reactions, of course, were indicative of the other health problems caused by my chronic Cpn infection.

Joyce (self)~Generally Falling Apart:  artery disease, HBP, high cholesterolⁱ, diabetic, fatty liver/history of elevated liver enzymes, elevated blood calcium, elevated RBCs, elevated iron, falling thyroid function, rising homocysteine and C-reactive protein, arthritis/DISH, disc degeneration, eye issues, acid reflux disease,  morning imbalance and cognitive dysfunction, history of chronic respiratory infections, etc....OOPS!  Perhaps I should have listed the chronic respiratory infections first, since that's how it all began.

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS).  CAP since August 06, antivirals, heavy metals chelation, LDN, Metanx, Lunesta, GF/CF diet, Lauricidin, oral IgGⁱ/lactoferrin/IGF-1 booster, astaxanthin, gamma oryzanol.

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Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSⁱ).  CAPⁱ since August 06, Cpnⁱ, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVⁱ, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsⁱ, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

Joyce, I've never asked Dr. Hahn or Dr. Wagshul if their patients have had other diseasesⁱ, and if they did what happened after treatment, but I will ask them that and let you know what they've said.

Once the forum was abruptly shut down on asthmastory, I began a yahoo group and contacted Dr. Wagshul to get specific information about his protocol. His head nurse had me fax over my questions and Dr. Wagshul had his replies typed up and faxed and also mailed to me. This was his reply:

Dr. Wagshul has sixteen years of experience in treating 16,000 to 18,000 patients with long term antibioticsⁱ and none of them are hospitalized, almost none are on steroids and most are significantly better and coming off of inhalers.

ASTHMA and INFECTIONSⁱ – INFORMATION FOR INTERESTED PHYSICIANS

Regimen #1

1. Doxycycline 100mgs twice a day for 12 weeks
2. Biaxin 500mgs twice a day for 12 weeks

Regimen #2

1. Doxycycline 100mgs twice a day for 12 weeks
2. Zithromax 250mgs a day for 12 weeks

Regimen #3

1. Ketek 400mgs 2 x a day for 12 weeks

We recommend that both pre and post treatment pulmonary function testing be done and initial baseline blood serologies for both mycoplasma and Chlamydia be done, looking at immunoglobulins.

I must emphasize that the above regimens are not FDA approved, although there are soon to be six NIH trials looking at long term antibiotic therapy in chronic obstructive lung disease and asthma.

He said he determined the regimen to use on a case by case basis. Also, just as with Dr. Hahn, in some cases a patients asthma improves because the asthma was only made worse by bacteria, and in other cases, it's completely resolved once the bacteria is eradicated, because the bacteria was the cause for the asthma.

Dr. Hahn was the one, I believe, who first noticed and wrote about the link between asthma and chlamydia pneumoniae. He noticed that his patients being diagnosed with adult onset asthma typically had elevated titers for cpn, indicating they once had the disease. Some testing showed that many of these patients who had nasal washes which were later tested, had cpn in the backwash. It was at this point that he began theorizing that with airborne cpn, it can enter the body through the nasal passages and mouth, and move further into the body if left untreated, down into the lungs, much the way sexually transmitted chlamydia has its own point of entry, and then moves further up into the body if left untreated. Does this sound familiar to your own situation?

Maureen,  If you haven't read this post on Dr. Stratton's "Essential Observations" yet, it explains how respiratory infection with Cpn moves on to affect other parts of the body.  Basically, infected immuneⁱ cells take the infection to points of inflammationⁱ.  Over 30 years ago, there was sickness in a fish camp where I was on vacation in Colorado.  It was blamed on contaminated well water and rumored to be caused by a virus.  In several days, I got over it, but it "settled" in my lower back; my back was very painful and stiff for several months.  I suppose that was Reactive Arthritis.  As the years went by, though, I slowly became arthritic in my lower back again, and it has spread to my hips.  I believe that's exactly the type of scenario Dr. Stratton presented in his observations. 

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS).  CAP since August 06, antivirals, heavy metals chelation, LDN, Metanx, Lunesta, GF/CF diet, Lauricidin, oral IgGⁱ/lactoferrin/IGF-1 booster, astaxanthin, gamma oryzanol.

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Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSⁱ).  CAPⁱ since August 06, Cpnⁱ, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVⁱ, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsⁱ, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

Hi Maureen,

The Stratton/Wheldon protocolsⁱ advocate the concurrent use of two antibioticsⁱ in much the same way as you describe, but additionally use Flagylⁱ for 5 days every three weeks, which is the antibiotic which addresses the cryptic formⁱ of Cpn.

You can see a chart of the different protocols that people on this website use here.

I had asthmaⁱ, when I first started the protocol this is one of the first things that improved, but I also have other complaints (sinusitis, alopeciaⁱ, IBSⁱ, peripheral neuropathy, back and joint pain) where Cpn is implicated and they are taking a lot longer to eradicate.

Michele (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 . Daily Doxyⁱ, Azi MWF, Flagyl at 400mg for 7 days prior to 5 day pulses at 1200mg three weeks cycle. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMS Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

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Michèle (UK) GFAⁱ: Wheldon CAPⁱ 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyⁱ, Azi MWF, metroⁱ pulse.

Joyce and Michele, thank you for the additional information.  Very interesting!  This reminds me of a friend who has been diagnosed with several of these autoimmune diseasesⁱ and was confined to a wheelchair for a couple of years.  She had surgery three years ago and something went wrong requiring a large blood transfusion.  Within four months of the surgery she was like a new person - out of the wheelchair and taking walks every day, no more fatigue, etc.  Slowly, some of her problems have returned, but she's not as bad as she was - she's not in a wheelchair, for example.  It makes you wonder.

Regarding flagylⁱ, I understand this.  I once had a sinus infection that wouldn't go away and my ent told me it was "anaerobic", meaning in tissue that doesn't get air, and would require flagyl.  Once on that for a couple of weeks, the infection was resolved.  I've since mentioned that to a couple of doctors (internists) who knew nothing about it. I found that a bit surprising.

Maureen   

Here is my story, but first, let me thank you so much for providing this site. 

I got sick Labor Day weekend of 06 when we were traveling.  I caught the worst case of strep I have ever had and I am also assuming this is when I also caught the c. & m. pneumoniae.  I was treated as soon as we got back for the strep but besides the sore throat subsiding, I did not really feel much better.  I went back to the Dr. and they re treated me for strep (even though the test was neg.) and I felt a brief period of relief but as soon as I was off the antibioticsⁱ, I was sick again.  Over the next year I begged my PCP, dentist and even my kids pediatrician for an antibiotic everytime I went in just to get a little relief from what I thought was a case of some kind of resistant strep.  I even tried to have my dog tested for strep.  Finally, in May of this year my PCP put me in the hospital and called in an infectious disease Dr. and and Ear, Nose & Throat specialist.  They ran a variety of tests that lasted over 5 days.  I was poked, prodded and made to feel that "possibly" these "symptoms" I was having were in my head.  All the tests came back normal except an almost doubled SED rate.  My white count remained elevated but they concluded that it was due to recent dental work.

I was dismissed from the hospital with Ativan and Prevacid.  The pain was so bad sometimes that it would make me sick to my stomach so instead of treating the cause....

One month later I returned to my Dr. and told him the Ativan only knocks me out and that I am not depressed nor do I have anxiety but I am SICK!  After AGAIN being told that we all "perceive pain differently" and to "take my valium", I never went back.  I remembered how much this other Dr. had helped my daughter once so I called to get an appointment.  I had to wait over a month.  I still to this day try to think what I said different to him than the specialists in the hospital and my PCP but that day he sent me for the m. & c. pnemoniae test.  The next week I saw him and he said he knew what was wrong and that I had one of the highest numbers he had seen.  What a relief...FINALLY!

I am now on pulse therapy.  I feel so much better when I get to do the "2 weeks straight" but am really trying to follow what this Dr. says to a T. 

I'm glad I found this site.  Your stories and suggestions give hope, encouragement & ideas.

Warmly, 

Senthia

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Senthia

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The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

THE DOCTOR KNEW TO TEST FOR CPN!!!!!!!!

Senthia, you have a wonderful, informed doctor.

You are bound to make even more improvements!

Here's to hope.

Best of Luck

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diagnosed MSⁱ Jan.2000 ,  chronic neurological lyme disease Nov.2002.

doxyⁱ 100 mg. 1BID. roxyⁱ.150 mg.? BIDⁱ,adding rifampin soon, pulsed tiniⁱ. every 3 weeks, as of oct.17/08, rifampin,naltrexone (LDNⁱ),NACⁱ, nystatin, major wheldon supplemrnts daily,

I had a very similar situation, especially with the "calming pills"; it's such a funny way to relieve the problems of a patient... " a multi-symptom patient is treated with anxiety pills" and nothing else.  Is it everywhere or is it just here in the US?  I come from other Country and the treatment there is soo much different...  

Anyways, the important thing is having the "cause' treated, as you well say, instead of just the symptoms.  And this is exactly what I am looking for, when I ask who was first, the hen or the egg?  because is we find the cause, like in my case it is now very clear it is a sinus problem even though I had no serious congestion in my mucus; I just swallow from time to time some liquid - that in my words it is such a toxin that makes my thoat and neck swell, my thyroid dysfunctional, my heart slow, my muscles tired and loose, my hands swelling, etc etc.  - but what comes after this liquid?  is it the CPN? ok, good to know to be able to treat it, and what comes before it?  What can be a bed of these bacteria to have it living there? Which is the cause in my case?  - because not everyone has it in their sinuses doing what it does in mine - so, I thought, there must be something helping her to live here, or something generating the environment for her, and I thought it might be a fungus - as the Mayo Clinic studies found... so, I start washing my nose with salt water; used Euphorbium nasal drops; used antihistaminic and specially have used Silver Sinus nasal Spray and, voila, symptoms have gone far; big recovery have come very near and life is sometimes really good.  I still don't have the final answer and have relapsed, probably because I might need more treatments like the flagylⁱ and others; but looking for the cause have been the clue to recovery!

AND I WISH YOU ALL FIND YOUR ANSWERS FINDING THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEM  SO YOU CAN HAVE A SMOOTHER PATH TO RECOVERY!!! 

GOD BLESS!

Happy to hear that Senthia is going to have the treatment; I hope I can get a Doctor too ...

Maria P. 

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God bless you all.

MariaPatri - living in a rollercoaster! (In Orlando, Fl).

Thyroiditis, sinus infection, heart, muscles and joints. 

I think it is so great to read about other people's journeys here.

I feel like on such a roller coaster most of the time- that I get almost confused when at the doctor or specialist of the day to tell them why I am there... one week-- all symptoms back- next week- just a few remain-- next week something new.. :) I am so thankful for this though because I would rather have it that way than to have some of these all the time like I know some people have- and I am so sorry for those that do.  It seems that the majority of people here found cpn on their own after searching and searching-- with ms or cfs or fm or somethinglike this. I wasnt looking at all- but my internalist stuck me on this website and said he wouldnt even talkt o me abotu cpn until I had read it (he is good but doesnt have the best bedside manner:))Anyways== It is a journey... I have not convinced my DO yet that this is what is going on- he thinks lymes more likely -- as my internalist also things lymes in play. He is still after me about my lymphs and watching out for Burkitts lymphoma with my high ebv count..... so;) All I have to say is God is good:) and I am so thankful to be on a path now instead of hunting down things like I was before I came to my internalist... I was convinced I had some new horrid disease every week with the way my symptoms were. I know that doesnt sound new to those who have been here. BUt just wanted to encourage anyone new. I still consider myself new-- JUst started the doxycyline and azythromicin part of the protocol. I am still trying to remember all of the supplementsⁱ and such. It is quite overwhelming at first. I encourage anyone just starting to not give up- let's keep going:)

Melissa

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Melissa

HIGH EBVⁱ 2/08,card/resp sxⁱ,numb hand,musc twitch/pains,neg for msⁱ/lupus,scans hd 2 toe, abd/jnt/lymph pain, dizzy/fatigue, lymph swelling, lyme susp 9/08- igx-1 ++, cd57 52, CMV+, HHV6, MYCO-CAP11/08 NACⁱ,Dxy,Zithⁱ MWF+sups