on a new one, so we begin, so we continue

I finally did it today, I started Rifampin.  As a side note, I've been referring to it as Rifampicin, it's Rifampin.  I got the product information sheet from my pharmacy when the prescription was filled (thanks to Rica's suggestion).  I read the entire thing and it was very informative.  I note that the product information sheet talks about using Rifampin and INHi together so it's not unusual to be taking both at the same time.  I suppose one could say taking those plus doxyi plus azi plus pulsing with flagyli would be just a little over the top in their eyes though, lol!

So I've taken my first of two daily doses of Rifampin...150 mg each.  I didn't/haven't noticed much in the way of anything unusual so far.  I took it with doxy and naci, at the same time.  I think that's okay, they don't interact with one another that I can tell from the product documentation.  I did note that Rifampin interfered with vitamin Di levels in the blood, so I'll probably be upping my vitamin D intake to counter that effect.

There was also something about the P450 enzyme process that made me wonder.  I'm not a biologist and will need to ask what that pertains to.

The documentation said not to eat less than an hour after taking Rifampin and not to take Rifampin until at least two hours after eating a meal.  That should work into my schedule just fine.

So, I'm on the little red/orange capsule now.  We'll see how that goes.

I got a prescription for INH at the same time as this one for Rifampin but I haven't started that and won't for a while.  The prescription my doc gave me for INH is 300 mg 1x per day in a month's supply quantity.  That's more than I was expect to get.  It will wait until I'm ready to go there, just not ready yet.

John

Comments

Hmm, I didn't mean you must

Hmm, I didn't mean you must be improving just since starting rifampicin, but since you started the whole regime.  Less than a week is too soon to tell anything with something like this............Sarah
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Morning, Bruce, I started

Morning, Bruce, I started falling more when I started getting much better, due largely to over confidence.  The bruises go quicker now, though!..........SarahCool

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow  
Stratton/Wheldon regime since August 2003, for aggressive secondary progressive MSi.  Intermittent therapy after one year. 2007 still take this two weeks every three months. Still slowly improving with no exacerbation since starting. EDSSi was 7, now 2
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Sarah, I hope you're

Sarah, I hope you're right.  I don't feel any differently really.  The falls are likely the result of lack of sleep.  I took another one this morning albeit less severe since it was on a store floor that was linoleum.  It had been raining here and I was trying to be very careful.  Unfortunately, I tried so hard to not slip that I instead tripped and down I went. 

all my best

John, aka Bruise

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

Thanks John, for the updated

Thanks John, for the updated schedule of drugs and times.   I hope your spate of falls passes shortly.   It kind of saps your confidence...

Michele (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 . Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, Flagyli at 400mg for 7 days prior to 5 day pulses at 1200mg three weeks cycle. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMSi Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

I have to amend my previous

I have to amend my previous comments about how I'm doing today, I omitted something.  I mostly chalk this up to random bad luck and inattentiveness due to lack of sleep, but I'm fallen down two times this week.

The first time was last night walking in from the gym.  It was late, dark, and I was tired.  I was going down some steps and I either mis-stepped or just last my balance, and wham I was on the ground...well...concrete.  It was outside.  Oh wait, I know what happened.  A stupid bug surprised me, startled me.  A gigantic cicada, flew right into me.  That's why I lost it.

The second time was today.  I was coming into the building where I work and tripped on steps leading up.  It could have been worse but wasn't a pleasant experience.  I'm becoming quite familiar with concrete.

Two weeks ago, before starting Rifampin, I had a considerably worse fall, again on concrete stairs.  In this case, they were the ones leading out of the building where I live.  I landed and managed to sand the skin right off my right elbow and lower forearm.  It's nearly healed now.

Yes, just call me Bruise...err...Bruce. Wink

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

It's the morning of my 5th

It's the morning of my 5th day of Rifampin and all is well so far today.  I didn't awaken with the same lethargy that I had yesterday.  I have been able to get around all morning so far in a manner consistent with my days immediately before Rifampin.

Yesterday, as the day wore on the symptoms I was having abated.  I would say that by abojut 3 o'clock, I was back to the pre-Rifampin levels of reaction to the CAPi.

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

John - Thanks for posting

John - Thanks for posting this amount of detail.  It is very helpful to me.  A  quick question?  How are you spacing out the Doxyi, Azi and Rifampin each day?

Thanks!

Daisy-Caregiver- Balo's Concentric Sclerosis. Began CAPi 5/10/07. Doxy 200 mg QDi, AZI 250mg MWF, NACi 600 to 1200 mg, Flagyl Pulses, Novantrone, Prednisone, 1 Scoop Lauricidin, Colloidal Silver, and daily pound of supplementsi.

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  Husband died from Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Secondary to the Infusion of Novantrone.  Ie - the treatment with the conventional MSi drugs killed him.

Daisy on her own CAP 11/2012. 

Hi Daisy I'm glad that this

Hi Daisy

I'm glad that this is helpful to you.  I figure the more information, the better.

Spacing out Doxyi, Azi, and Rifampin isn't diffult or hasn't been for me.  I have to qualify that in that I was taking Doxy 2x per day but currently take all 200mg in one dose.  Taking it at one time has made it easier.

The schedule that I take things is the following.  NACi, 4 times per day starting at 5:30 A.M., then again at 9:30, 3:30, and 9:30 PM.  Doxy, 1 time per day at 9:30 AM.  Azi, 1 time per day, 3 times per week M, W, F at 9:30 AM.  Rifampin I take twice per day at 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM.

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (nac, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

John - Thanks for spelling

John - Thanks for spelling out the meds so clearly!  Also, sorry to hear about the spills on the concrete and steps - Ouch.  I hope you are okay!

Daisy-Caregiver- Balo's Concentric Sclerosis. Began CAPi 5/10/07. Doxyi 200 mg QDi, AZI 250mg MWF, NACi 600 to 1200 mg, Flagyl Pulses, Novantrone, Prednisone, 1 Scoop Lauricidin, Colloidal Silver, and daily pound of supplementsi.

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  Husband died from Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Secondary to the Infusion of Novantrone.  Ie - the treatment with the conventional MSi drugs killed him.

Daisy on her own CAP 11/2012. 

This is good news,

This is good news, John!

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.  Mohandas Gandhi

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

When I was on Rifampin,

When I was on Rifampin, this is exactly what I had, and it was about the same time. At that time, Sept. 2004, this site did not exist and I had no idea what to expect. Actually, I don't think it would have mattered because I would have continued anyway. Your having been on a somewhat mediating regimen for 18 months may make it very possible for you to do this and still work. You may have to put up with reduced physical abilities for a while, which I bet you can handle, but the physical deficits are - based on the water under our bridge from then to now - a reminder of where we were heading. If I had known that then, I would have been joyful! My mind was not such that I could feel or think fast or clearly. I think this is thrilling and time for celebration!.

 

Rica PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAPi Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagyli total 44 pulses NC USA

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

John, I'd say you're

John, I'd say you're getting what you wished for: a clear indication the rifampin is hitting something the others did not get to. Of course, as with anything, there's a price to be paid.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.  Mohandas Gandhi

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Day four of my use of

Day four of my use of Rifampin has begun with a distinct change in how I feel.  It's not a positive change in the short term, so I'm unsure how to assess it. 

When I woke up this morning, I noticed a lethargy in my legs, almost as if I had been lifting weights with them the previous night.  The problem is that I take Tuesday night off from going to the gym, so I didn't lift any weights.  It was/is like my first trial of NACi only much less intense.  I can walk unaided though it is a bit tenous and my balance isn't really what it was just yesterday.

I don't know if I'm experiencing die off or if my liver is sending me a sign.  Yes, the liver paranoia is definitely there.  However, given that I've only been using Rifampin for 3 days and haven't yet had my first dose of day 4, I'm inclined to think that would be a bit soon for the liver to have a reaction.  So die-off is the more likely culprit in my mind.

Given that I've been on NAC, Azi, and Doxyi for 18 months, I would also think that the die off is probably in the CNSi and not the body in general.  That's my impression, though clearly that's speculative.  There is no way to know for certain.  But the timing is interesting as the massive die-off I had from NAC when I did my initial trial of it was at about the same time lapsed as this one has been.

I'll have to see how I do over the next day or so and whether or not I can stay on Rifampin at the level I'm at or cut back.  I'm hoping that this won't be a cumulative effect and will instead ease off after this initial die-off.

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (nac, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

Good work John, REM sleep is

Good work John,

REM sleep is the only time our body heals itself so they say.  I read it takes several hours to enter that sleep repair time & 4 hours of REM is ideal.  Sleep well, it is important.  Having chronic insomnia my REM is medicated to its arrival, but nevertheless, very important to have.

Blessings

Ruth

CFIDSi/ME 25yrs, FMSi, IBSi, EBVi, Cpni, (insomnia - melatonin">i, GABA, tarazadone, temazepam, novocyclopine, allergy formula, 2 gm tryptophan), Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 250 mg M/W/Fday, 8-21-07 1st pulse 1 X 250 mg Metroi<

CFIDSi/ME, FMSi, MCS, IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplementsi+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyli/day-5 days<

It's the morning of the

It's the morning of the third day of Rifampin.  The one thing I've noticed so far is that I'm a little more tired than usual.  I'm usually tired due to habitually getting less sleep than I should.  One of the hazards of living such an active life, working, going to the gym, and whatnot.  I find I get about 5-1/2 to 6 hours a night during the week, more on weekends.

About two months ago I changed my workout regimen so that I'm only going to the gym 4 nights a week instead of five.  That reduces my weekly gym time from 10 hours to 8 hour per week.  This, after previously changing from going to the gym 3 days a week but spending 12 hours there.  I've learned to target my workouts so that they're more effective in less time.

I take Tuesday nights off now.  I haven't been successful in scheduling myself to sleep more on that night off, but I'm trying to get there.  It just seems like I have so much backed up to do that I find things to be busy doing when I'm not at the gym.   On weekends I can sleep in, thus the greater amount of sleep during that time.

On another note, I find myself wondering if maybe I should have started with INHi rather than Rifampin.  My doctor gave me a monthly prescription of both.  150mgx2 of Rifampin and 300mgx1 of INH, both taken daily.  I saw a chart someone posted of the effectiveness of different drug combinations against Cpni in vitro.  It appeared that combinations with INH were more effective at eliminated the bug, but it's too late now, I'm committed to Rifampin.  I'll have to review the table and other information that's been posted about the effectiveness of combinations using Rifampin.  I think that they've been quite effective as well.

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily on 08/19/2007

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

Well put, Daisy.   Rica

Well put, Daisy.

 

Rica PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAPi Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagyli total 44 pulses NC USA

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Day two of Rifampin.  I've

Day two of Rifampin.  I've taken the second dose of the day, about five hours after the first dose.  I think the product literature says something about the half life only being 3 hours or the like, so I'm unsure whether taking the two doses so close together is or isn't advisable.  In any case, I thought I would share my experiences so far.  Yes, this is a blow by blow, my interest in providing up to date reports will vary greatly on how busy I am with other things.

Yesterday finished out as expected.  I went to the gym and did my thing.  I was quite wiped out by the end of things, more so than I have been on most occasions in the past.  I'm usure if this was an affect of the Rifampin or just that it had been about three days since I worked out.  Alternatively, it could be a combination of things as I've run out of vitamin D3 and have been subsituting D2.  Not a good idea, especially given that Rifampin deteriorates vitamin D levels.  I went to get more earlier today but they were out.  I'll check another source after work.

Today, I'm having a little bit more trouble getting around than usual.  It may be just that I'm still very tired from last night or it may be that and a combination of low vitamin D and Rifampin.  Assuming I get the D3 tonight, I'll do my best to eliminate that as a possibility by tomorrow.  4000 IU of D2 isn't the same as 4000 IU of D3. 

Also, to anyone who may be inclined that speculate, I'd appreciate any input into the idea of alcohol consumption while on Rifampin.  Thanks.  

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

John - Thanks for posting

John - Thanks for posting the details of your Rifampin experience!  I personally am very eager to hear them and share them with my husband who is also interested in Rifampin.

Re the alcohol, Rifampin plus Lliver can equal Trouble.  Alcohol plus Liver can equal Trouble.  I say avoid alcohol at least for the next 60 to 90 days to see how you are truly going to tolerate the Rifampin and let your liver focus on processing toxins with a break from alcohol.  

Eagerly looking forward to hearing the blow by blows or whispers by whispers of your Rifampin trial.

Daisy

Daisy-Caregiver- Balo's Concentric Sclerosis. Began CAPi 5/10/07. Doxyi 200 mg QDi, AZI 250mg MWF, NACi 600 to 1200 mg, Flagyl Pulses, Novantrone, Prednisone, 1 Scoop Lauricidin, Colloidal Silver, and daily pound of supplementsi.

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  Husband died from Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Secondary to the Infusion of Novantrone.  Ie - the treatment with the conventional MSi drugs killed him.

Daisy on her own CAP 11/2012. 

The subject of cytochrome

The subject of cytochrome P450 enzymes is a vast one. P450 is a general class of enzyme, not something particular. The Wikipedia page< gives an idea of its extent: there are a wide variety of P450 enzymes, doing all sorts of things. My own knowledge doesn't even qualify as scratching the surface of the issue of what they all do. But I've heard of two practical impacts regarding rifampin: one, that rifampin speeds up the P450 metabolism of some drugs, so that they need to be taken more often, and two, that this speeding-up (not just of drug metabolism but of the metabolism of other toxins) can damage the liver.

Thanks Norman Aside from

Thanks Norman

Aside from Liver detoxification, I wonder if they have any impact on anything else?  I have no idea but I'm guessing not.

On a liver tangent, I'm wondering what impact alcohol consumption will have given that it's a liver negative.  I've been extremely careful about that having only consumed alcocol three times in the last year, albeit in very small quantities.  I'm quite paranoid about liver function the recent discussions here and most definitely don't want to have problems in that area. 

I've taken my second dose of Rifampin.  Not feeling any discernable affects so far, which I suppose isn't a surprise.  It's likely to enhance the affects of doxyi and azithro, just increase the overall impact, and not do anything too different.  Time will tell...

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

Both 'rifampin' and

Both 'rifampin' and 'rifampicin' are acceptable spellings.

The "cytochrome P450" enzymes are a large part of the first phase of detoxification, in the liver.

John, this is very exciting

John, this is very exciting to me. I think there are many of us who will be watching this so please keep us informed. You're very good at that.

 

Rica PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 at beginning - now 2. Began CAPi Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith, cont. flagyli total 44 pulses NC USA

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am