Hello everybody,
I am abxi since 2 weeks and I have no herx reaction at all. I felt much better in first week, now improvment in my overall condition stopped, but I do not have any symphtoms described under herx reaction link. What to think about it?
I am cpni positive and since 2 weeks on abxi treatment. Currently fluorochinolon - 2x 200mg a day. It will be changed to sth different next tuesday when I plan to see my doctor again.
I would be very glad to hear why I do not have any herx reaction and if a treatment I received looks ok to get rid of cpn?
Best regards
Lukas,
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Many people get no real
Many people get no real reactions until they are well into the pulses taking 3 abxi together. I've been on Doxyi for 3 weeks and Zithi for 1 and I'm not getting much reaction either. Several others on here will tell you they sailed through quite happily for seven months and then got floored on their 8th month pulse with Flagyli.
Are you taking all the supplementsi and the NACi as listed in Getting Started? The protocolsi recommend Doxy followed by Zith. I don't know about fluorochinolon, not one I've come across before, somebody else on here will know though.
Basically, keep at it, count yourself lucky you're not flat on your back, and wait.
Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NAC 2400mg. All supplementsi. Doxy 200mg. Zith 250mg M/W/F.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAP 20th April 2008.
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Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NACi 2400mg. All supps. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg. Metroi 400mg.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008. First pulse June 2008
As Andesine noted, you
As Andesine noted, you need to be on medications that address all the phases of Cpni. Fluorochinolon is not a good one to be on for very long as it is associated with tendon problems. You may not have any reactions, or you may not have reactions until you add NACi or flagyli to your regimen.
CAPi for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Protocol: 200mg Doxyi, 300mg Roxithromycin, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D1000 units, Iodoral 50mg, T4 & T3
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CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 150mg BID Roxithromycin, Doxycycline 100mg BID, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3
I asked my doctor last time
I asked my doctor last time about NACi and she said it is not helpful in chlamydial infectionsi - eventually it can help in eliminating it with cough. About flagyl (metronidazolei) she said that time ago doctors thought it is effective against bacterias living inside cells but it is not proven. What is proven is that it damages medulla ossium in our bodies.
I do not know what to think about it but she is a very good doctor that helped many people getting rid of chlamydia in the past.
Maybe there is a different treatment for people with serious illnesses assosiated with cpni and different for ones like me that just have cpn and respiratory problems.
I do not know which treatment is the right one but I deceided for a moment to trust this doctor. Lets see what happens next.
I am wondering how people lived with chlamydia and assosiated illnesses 200 years ago befor abxi were invented :) Maybe just shorter :)
My doctor is also a very
My doctor is also a very good one, in the areas that he understands. Cpni and CAPi are way outside his area of knowledge. You don't have to take NACi, Sarah didn't until she was some time into CAP but she then started taking it and continues taking it to prevent re-infection.
David Wheldoni has a section about NAC on his site that explains how it works, it also says
"It is an acetylated sulphur-containing amino-acid, and may be expected to cause chlamydial EBs to open prematurely, killing them".
It also helps protect your liver.
If I were you, I'd want to know why your Doc is so certain that it doesn't help. Does she have evidence? If she believes NAC is useless and Flagyli is bad, what has she put you on instead?
As to 200 years before abxi, the same as all other abxi treatable illnesses, you either got over it by yourself, lived with it, or you didn't and died.
Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NAC 2400mg. All supplementsi. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg M/W/F.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldon.
Started CAP 20th April 2008.
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Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NACi 2400mg. All supps. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg. Metroi 400mg.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008. First pulse June 2008
I believe there is enough
I believe there is enough science to support everything that is said on this board about treating CPni from supplementsi to reactions etc. The protocol is what it is for reasons. For some it is changed within the reasons that are again supported by science.
That you are not having reactions at this point in time is absolutely understandable as you are not on the treatment protocol yet.
Hope you decide to eradicate the CPn completely. It is quite possible 100 years ago CPn wasn't as serious as it is now for very many reasons. Diet, stress & environmental issues combined with other bacterial infectionsi are just a few that come to mind.
best wishes
CFIDSi/ME 26yrs, FMSi,
IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpn, chronic insomnia, Lymes, HME, Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse#9 750mg 5.5 day, 4-25-8___________________________________________________________
CFIDSi/ME 32 yrs, FMSi,
IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, chronic insomnia, Lymes, HME, Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse#12 2 gm oops then 1250 mg 4 days 6-14-08NACi is a harmless
NACi is a harmless supplement and can only be beneficial, you don't need a prescription for it and it should show you how bad your Cpni infection is. If you don't have cough and sneezes or aches and pain a bit like the flu, then you probably don't have a very big load of Cpn.
I suggest you read Getting Started, the blue tab at the top of the page. It should give you enough information about Cpn to be able to speak to your doctor from a position of knowledge. Cpn will not be erradicated with one antibiotic alone...
Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMS, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006
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Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMS, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006
Is it true on all cases that
Is it true on all cases that NACi causes coughs, sneezes, aches or flu in everyone who has any kind of Cpni load?
I ask because I'm working on getting my family to do the challenge and after a week of 2400mg NAC per day several are saying, "See, no NAC flu, I must not have Cpn", though many of their symptoms match mine and I tested positive for it and am quite ill.
I don't wish for them to have it, but I wish to find the answers to their symptoms. We've already ruled out Lyme, which I have, so Cpn is the most likely next target.
Thanks,
Marysia
NAC 2400mg/dy, Doryx 200mg/dy, ramping up on CAPi. CDC +Lyme FMSi 02/06; Cpn, HHV6, and EBVi + 03/08. 2 yrs slow improvement on variations of long-term antibioticsi for Lyme. Now slowly resuming treatment after severe porphyriai attack 09/07.
NACi does not cause flu-like
NACi does not cause flu-like symptoms in everyone.
Taking NAC and waiting for a reaction is kind of a screening test. If you react to it, there is a high likelihood you have CPni. The absence of a reaction is not proof you don't have CPn since you might have a low level of infection that doesn't provoke a noticable reaction or your body is particularly good at clearing out the debris on its own.
Of course, it is also possible the NAC is killing something and it is just taking time for the dead bodies to build up to the point of provoking a reaction. I took NAC for over a month before the NAC-flu set in.
CAPi for M.S. since 8/2007. Currently: 100 mg Dox. (2 x day), 250 mg Zithi (3 x week) ceased 3/2008, restarted 5/2008,
150 mg Roxi (2 x day)starting 3/2008, ended 5/2008. Eighth pulse metronidazolei completed 5/10/2008.___________________________________________________________
CAPi for M.S. since 8/2007. Currently: 100 mg Dox. (2 x day), 250 mg Zithi (3 x week) ceased 3/2008, restarted 5/2008,
150 mg Roxi (2 x day)starting 3/2008, ended 5/2008. Tenth pulse metronidazolei completed 7/5/2008.Also, if they're looking for
Also, if they're looking for flu symptoms in the manner of traditional flu then they are unlikely to find it. You have to have a very bad cpni load to get floored by NACi alone.
It's more likely to be sinusy type headaches just above the eyes, but not terribly painful, just pressure. Occasional runny nose, occasional sneezing. That's all I got and it took longer than a week to turn up. I also found it became more obvious when I added the high dose Vitamin Di.
As mentioned above, they may have a very light load. Many people carry it and it never progresses, it all depends on your immunei system and how well it copes with getting rid of stuff.
As to symptoms similar to yours. I started out with dizzy spells, double vision and loss of balance. I've been diagnosed with MS.
My other half had the same symptoms and he had Vertigo.
My mother had the same symptoms and it was caused by her thyroid pills reacting with some tablets she was given for her veins.
My Mother-in-Law had the same symptoms and she was dehydrated due to a diet she was on.
And my best friend had the same symptoms and is currently near death with a Brain Tumour.
I know it's difficult with family, you love them and you want to help them, but don't assume they have a particular problem based on a few similar symptoms. They may have additional problems which would point a Doctor to a completely different diagnosis.
Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NAC 2400mg. All supplementsi. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg M/W/F.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008.
___________________________________________________________
Berkshire, UK. Diagnosed RRMS Feb 4th 2008.
NACi 2400mg. All supps. Doxyi 200mg. Zithi 250mg. Metroi 400mg.
No GP/Neuroi support. Self medicating with help from David Wheldoni.
Started CAPi 20th April 2008. First pulse June 2008
Thanks for the helpful
Thanks for the helpful feedback, much appreciated.
Marysia
NACi 2400mg/dy, Doryx 200mg/dy, ramping up on CAPi for both Cpni and Lyme. CDC+ Lyme FMSi 02/06; Cpn, HHV6, and EBVi+ 03/08. 2 yrs slow improvement on variations of long-term antibioticsi for Lyme. Now slowly resuming treatment after severe porphyriai att
Some interesting thoughts
Some interesting thoughts here, let me add mine.
-I have hard reaction to NACi but thats not FLU type at all. It is there basically i have ever had CPNi issues. In my oppinion NAC is needed.
-About "Good doctors", here we have some REALLY good doctors. Some i really trust. They are even really good with many infectional diseasesi and i would trust them to treat me in any way bacause they are professionals. However i would ask questions from your doc. If he/she believes that NAC and flagyli doesnt work against CPN coz its not proved...well he /she should take a look at the resaerch that you can find all over here on this site and some others. It is not ONLY Stratton's, Wheldon's sort of GUESS. It has been many different studies proving this. It doesnt mean that a doctor isnt good, he might be very good, however if he doesnt do research in new developments, studies...etc. they might get stuck on ideas on several things that they have learned on university that CPN = one week abxi treatment.If a really deadly serious CPN disease than maybe 3 weeks of abxi. Thanks for them i am here.
I call a doctor good who is opened,humble and modest enough to new things and make efforts to explore new things and on another hand, would accept changes by time if it is proved and reasonable. But rejecting things right away refering to experience...not very wise.
mairj - I was like you,
mairj - I was like you, with very light symptoms (mostly fatigue) for much of my life. But in 2005, the cpni got inside my brain and I developed MS.
I had very little reaction to NACi, but I am now 95 to 98% better, after 31 months of antibiotic treatment. NAC alone will not prove to you that this works. Vitamin D alone will not prove to you that this works. This is a very complete protocol, designed to prepare your body for the antibioticsi, then add the antibiotics, then eventually to wean you from the antibiotics at the end of treatment. It is not short and it may not be easy, but it is effective for the majority of people who undertake it.
First, you must take the proper medications, which are clearly outlined in Dr. Wheldon's paper. www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.htm
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
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The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi