Must we have had pneumoia?

I did a search on the site and scanned the handbook.  I was looking to find a statement like, "CPni enters the body through the lungs, therefore you must have had pneumoia as an initial means to longterm infection."  But, I couldn't find something that clearly said that.  Are their ways to get longterm CPn infection without having had pneumoia?  Are their papers on this?  I'm having trouble with this seemingly simple question.  Ken

Hi Ken,

have you seen this?

http://www.cpnhelp.org/twar/twar-syndrome.htm<

Best Wishes from Maria

Cpni since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acid">i.All classic cpn,porphyriai and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NACi, high vitamin D3. CAPi for over 3 years. Back to work and life

Thank you Maria.  I do understand that we talk about pneumoiai as the primary way CPni gets introduced to the body.  I'm just trying to understand if that is the only way.  Meaning, can someone come to have crptic CPn in their body without ever having had Pneumoia?  Ken

In pursuit of ABX<

Don't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Ken, I have never had anything diagnoses as Pneumonia.   However that being said, I have had boughts with prolonged coughs that I worked through that sapped my energy and might have been termed "walking pneumonia", it is not necessary to have a pronounced fever (maybe a low grade that one could ignore) with this variation.  I had no-one listen to my lungs or even listened to them myself.  The one I particulary remember lingered for about 6 weeks the winter of 1991.   I was too busy to be ill so I pushed through, children, job, education, licensing tests, no time to be sick.  Who was to know and then they would have likely called it a virus as CPni was not well known back then and abxi would surely not have been prescribed.  I had some off colored sputum from time to time but nothing copious and I did not see a doctor by choice I guess.  I have often gotten throat cultures to rule out strep throat but beyond that I seldom saught care for what would be called the "common cold".

So I would hazzard to put forth (and most suredly there may be disagreement) that any respiratory infection has the potential possiblity to be CPn, as much as any of the other bacterial or viral pathogens that frequent take up residence in the upper or lower respiratory track.   

Since a high percentage of older people have some sort of positive titer for it, I doubt that all of them have had diagnosis of pneumonia which simple states inflamation of the lung (will have to consult my medical dictionary) but I think you may get my point here.

You are having trouble with the question because it is not a seemingly easy question really quite mutlifaceted.   

I certainly do enjoy your questions by the way.   Louise  

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Your welcome. From my understanding it starts with some kind of infection in troat, nose and so on. Not everone get pneumonia.

And then it spread in our bodies.

So if one have cryptic Cpni it means that you once had this first infection in your troat, nose and airways.  

There was a study here in Sweden that showed that 50% of 5 year old children had or have had this infection. And from then it can hide in our bodies and hit us harder later in life. 

Cpni since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acid">i.All classic cpn,porphyriai and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NACi, high vitamin D3. CAPi for over 3 years. Back to work and life

Ah ha.  Ok, let me reflect.

The Cpni bacteria is introduced to the body via airways and usually takes up shop in the lungs and causes the real icky fluidy illness we think of as pneumoiai.  But, the bacteria can also work it's way into the airways and cause less symptomatic illness, that might not seem like pneumoia - but still make it's way out of the lungs into systemic circulation.  So you don't have to feel like you had the full blown pneumoia lung infection to have CPn.

How was that?

In pursuit of ABX<

Don't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Sounds very good to me!

diagnosed MSi Jan.2000 ,  chronic neurological lyme disease Nov.2002.

doxyi 100 mg. 1BID. roxyi.150 mg.? BIDi,adding rifampin soon, pulsed tinii. every 3 weeks, as of oct.17/08, rifampin,naltrexone (LDNi),NACi, nystatin, major wheldon supplemrnts daily,

Yes!!But I think that cpni not always get to the lungs. It can get from eyes,troat,nose and more into systemic circulation.

Best Wishes from Maria

Cpni since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acid">i.All classic cpn,porphyriai and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NACi, high vitamin D3. CAPi for over 3 years. Back to work and life

Thanks LouLou.  This new learning amazes me.  Before antibioticsi, 1/3 of the folks who got infected with pneumoiai died.  I did not know that. 

Might this account for why MSi is a "modern" illness.  I don't thik I've read this assembly of thoughts here before.  Ken

In pursuit of ABX<

Don't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

And let us not forget blood transfusions.  Perhaps they are screening for CPni now but in the early 90's perhaps they did not know about it to test for it.   So that could theoretically get into you system without going through the eyes, nose or mouth.  

A friend works at the Red Cross Blood Center she says that there is quite a bit that is screened of course.  I have not ever asked about persistent intracellur infectionsi that are so accomodated that they can escape the immunei system.      

You really want to be practically dead before taking blood even if it is well screened from my point of view.    Louise

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Ken, perhaps this will somewhat explain your question. 

"How Chlamydia Pneumoniae Causes Such a Plethora of Diseases"< -

    Submitted by Jim K on Mon, 2006-12-25 00:31

How Chlamydia Pneumoniae Causes Such a Plethora of Diseases

http://www.cpnhelp.org/how_chlamydia_pneumoniae<

 

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

That post from 12/2006 is once again a good read, I have seen it before and worth reading again.  It supports my supposition that Blood transfusions could be another way to transmit CPni unintentionally, of course.   It also supports my suppostion for myself that my Liver was a primary site for my CPn and that rapid die off from the prescribed high dose doxyi at 400mg/day as my first medication was overload for my situation and detrimental for me.

Also that post speaks to the fact that full blown, incapacitating pneumonia is not necessary, bronchitis and laryngitis, and sinus problemsi for some can be the infectionsi of original infection.   It really is an athoritative answer to your qestion Ken.   Louise

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Most of has have never been diagnosed with "pneumonia". The type of "pneumonia" you generally get with Cpni is mild (although it can be life-threatening and acute in some). They call it "walking pneumonia" for that reason. Its probably more descriptive to say that the initial infection manifests as a respiratory infection, since the infected person will usually be aware of having a respiratory infection rather than pneumonia per se.
Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Ken you ask good questions, my answer, Jeanneroz answer and Garcia's answer all pull together.   Louise

P.S.  Let's have your next question please Smile!

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Good questions - that's for sure. Now to reread the answers.

Senses of humour. Thank you everyone. You keep me going.

diagnosed MSi Jan.2000 ,  chronic neurological lyme disease Nov.2002.

doxyi 100 mg. 1BID. roxyi.150 mg.? BIDi,adding rifampin soon, pulsed tinii. every 3 weeks, as of oct.17/08, rifampin,naltrexone (LDNi),NACi, nystatin, major wheldon supplemrnts daily,

I don't think I ever had pneumonia, whether walking or otherwise, but I had many respiratory infectionsi, coughs and so on.  I always thought that GP's surgeries were places to avoid as much as possible, due to the waiting room being generally full of snotty nosed infants, so someone might have diagnosed me with walking pneumonia, I don't know.

I also think that MSi isn't as modern a disease as is thought: in the very olden days people with MS would just have dropped from view, tucked away and forgotten about.  The lunatic asylum might have been full of them for all we know.  Most people weren't wealthy enough to get medical care and if they couldn't work they were put on the scrap heap...................Sarah

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I'm brand-new here and still very much just learning about all of this. However, in the section of the handbook that talks about how CPni infectionsi start, the diagram shows it can start with bronchitis, pneumonia, sinusitis or layrngitis. Just based on that, it would say you wouldn't have to have had a bout of pneumonia to have CPn?

 

I had a very bad case of bronchitis as a child that nearly killed me (airway closed up) and have had sinusitits frequently enough that I had to have surgery in my 20's. As far as I know, I never had pneumonia.

CAPi started 10/09 - Doxyi 200mg, Azith 250 MWF, 1 Flagyli pulse. Empirical CAP on suspicion of CPni or tick-borne infection. Primary symptoms are chronic sore throat, muscle pain (jaw, neck, trapezius, all on right side), rosaceai, joint pain.

I was never diagnosed with "walking pneumoniae" either, but was diagnosed with severe bronchitis episodes.  Was told I had "asthmatic-type" symptoms but never officially diagnosed with asthma.  Had severe sinus issues and lived on Tylenol Sinus Plus for years.  Went to the urgent care facilities on several occasions because I could not  breathe (only to be given a nebulzer treatment and inhalers, (back then I never used the inhalers -- thought I would become dependent). I attributed most of my issues to the fact that I smoked (about a pack a day) for many years.  

These episodes actually started about the year 2000 and got progressively worse until my shutdown in November 2006, culminating to complete incapacity March of 2007 with a diagnosis of CPNi as the culprit. 

What is interesting is that 2.5 years into this treatment my respiratory system seems to be reacting  again the hardest.  Over these months this treatment has hit  my adrenals, kidneys, knees, sacroilliac, colon, joints, now the pulses are affecting my lungs, ears, sinus, and head -- to the point I have to use the nebulizer, inhalers and benedryl. 

My hope is that in another year or so these issues will also be cleared.

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Louise,

You've got to be kidding.  Actually, I think I stumbled onto a needed topic.  My brother is visiting for a few days so, I'm likely offline.

Happiness!

Ken

In pursuit of ABX<

Don't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Hi Ken, I thought about your comment over night and am intrigued by it.  

I will be looking for your new forum topic question at some upcoming point!  Perhaps a discussion something like "potential portals of entry for the Chlamydophila P. bacterium and other persistent human host pathogens, (check the spelling it could be off, one of my weaker suites). 

I guess I am assuming that your question branches off enough from this one that it deserves it's own thread.  I am again assuming it has something to do with my blood transfusion comment perhaps not.   Thinks of all the persistent intracellulari bacterium (and viruses for that matter) that can be present and have long since stopped causing the immunei system to react enough to register in the active ranges on testing.   This is where banking your own blood, when scheduling for up coming semi-elective surgery, comes to the forefront.  Hhopefully one will not need more than one has banked.   If it is life or death you play your odds, the luck of the draw so to speak.   Even hearing about this treatment modality for chronic illnesses is the luck of the draw, word of mouth, a fortunate google hit.   Had I not google the correct spelling of Chlaymdia Pneumoniae with that final e which is more correct for the bacteria in the spelling I wuould have missed this site entirely in June 2006.   I know because I tried it that way and perhaps it would have shown up on page 10 of the search or something like that but I was so brainfogged I would not have gotten through scanning the results to that point. 

 

A few random thoughts;   

Like you "I love this website" (we have had a few exchanges and I quote you) because it offers hope and treatment options tha one can rationally request from one's medical provider or only if necessary, enough info, to go-it-alone if necessary, and the Wheldon approach is based on doing no harm and using the best way to ease into the process without causing untoward physical results such that even periodic labs for most, are likely to prove unecessary.  This has all been shared for the benefit of mankind. To the both of the Wheldons I will be forever greatful for this chance at bringing me back to life as I was fading away, spirit, mind and body. 

Now I am on the side of the treatment process that has me stretching to get better than better with supportive adjuncts and other modalities added to my Intermittent Cycle CAPi.   I had it in my thinking, upon following the posting here, that I would be on the daily plan for 3 - 5 years initially but things went right for me, for whatever combination of reasons and at 20 months of CAP daily and pulsing treatment, my experience changed and I felt ready with enough improvement to begin the wind down treatment of the Intermittent Cycle CAP.  My rocky course can be seen troughout my blogs.

My options are open for return to daily treatment of course, and that also is wonderful about this approach, the flexibility of options once you get some improvement and time of treatment under one's belt.

I am happy to be functional and finding activity in my life.   Cure is a big word and currently I keep my eye on keeping functional.   Should this be chronic then there are the tools here to deal with it and that inspires me to look past the needing to know I am cured.   There are many organizms that take up residence in the human body probably more than have been discovered at this point. 

Happiness, yes thank you, life has the potential and choices to plan ahead once again.  Something that Chronic CFSi/FMSi through active persistent infection prevented my from experiencing.   I could see the problem and God Bless, eventually I found this treatment!

So nice that you will be having family company.  If the weather holds up perhaps you can get out for another group bike ride. 

We have been shining and oiling up our dusty bikes. Your photos remind me that we are wasting our opportunity to enjoy Acadia National Park carriage road system (a reasonable day trip, the fresh air, Vitamin Di and needed exercise (with less exposure to ticks in the brush!) 

After years of feeling that I cannot do I am now planning all sorts of way to get going.  At the beginning of this adventure in healing, these thoughts were far from my considerations.  

Happiness to your family as well.    Louise   

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
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