Moppers--all about moppers?

Louise--I learn so much from you!  Thank you for being so available, consistent and knowledgeable. 

I have two antibiotic prescriptions staring at me.  What holds me back is my fear of porphyriai--of which I had a horrible experience almost 2 years ago.  

I have come a long way--Wahls diet etc.--and felt great on Augmentin (had to take due to a cat bite). So, contemplating the next step of antibioticsi.  My other option is to go the herbal route but either way porphyria can result. 

There are so many moppers. Is there a way for us to consolidate all of that info?  

Today I will be searching "Louise moppers" since she seems to be the mopper geek!  :) 

Any help is appreciated.  I am starting fresh on this topic again since I see mention of ox bile and also  Chitosan Ultra.  Ox bile....creepy. You have to be really sick to take something called that.   


Katherine

I've actually been trying to compose an all encompassing post about moppers in my other blog. I simply have not had time. Maybe tonight I can start it.

Jen--that would be awesome!

There are so many--and they are all taken differently.

Ox Bile--after Louise commented about it--I think I may try it.  And I trust her opinion.

I have to spend more time searching....I couldn't do it over the weekend--thoughI had planned on it.  Time issues.

The constant carbing up--killed me.  I was up every hour to eat.  That was really really awful!

Everyone has such a different experience so it helps if there are options.  

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Katherine

 

 

There is so many options and it's really trial and error for which works best for you, I found that the charcoal in the middle of the night helped tremendously around 4-6 capsules and I took about 4-6 chlorophyll capsules a day, i recently discovered A FAR infared sauna which i brought on ebay and that works amazing if you can handle the heat but only brought one just before finished antibioticsi and I sweat in that like never before, I am just gonna try the detox foot patches this week, but I did use the charcoal and chlorophyll on the protocal and found those two worked great. I feel really good at the moment and it's probably just because I am on antibiotics intermittantantly but i have never felt this good 

Diagnosed with progressive MSi at 18, was told would be in wheel chair with in 1 year, looked after myself and don't have too many attacks now, I am just tired all the time, started CAPi on 1st Sep 2012.

Mandylee--thanks for your note.

Do you think the FAR sauna helped with porphyrians?

Facilitated the die off issue?

I know--hard to put into words how wonderful it is to feel well.   Awesome, really.

Thanks!

Katherine

 

 

The Sauna definitely did help but i would have to use the one at the gym same type but bigger and everytime i used it i felt much less fatigue and more energy, I was actually was looking to get a big one at home but was to expensive then i discover the FAR Infared sauna for less than $200 and now im using it 3 times a week & actually sweat more in the small one, happy about that, i feel fresher after using it and sleep better too. I am on a constant detox kind of diet and i think all the things i do helped me get off the tablets quicker. I hope you have success with it.

 

Mandy

Diagnosed with progressive MSi at 18, was told would be in wheel chair with in 1 year, looked after myself and don't have too many attacks now, I am just tired all the time, started CAPi on 1st Sep 2012.

Hi Katherine,

Glad to hear that you are feeling better! I definitely second the sauna recommendation from mandy. I honestly don't know how anyone on here manages to do the protocol without access to a sauna. I tried using moppers earlier on but they didn't really work that great for me.

I think the more of the toxins you can sweat out the less there are to go through your liver and digestive tract as bile. The bile tends to be reabsorbed, moppers can prevent this to some degree but they're certainly not 100% effective. If your liver decides to release bile at a different time than when you take the mopper its not going to help much.

I seriously think the key to beating this thing is to get in the sauna as much as you need and eliminate the toxins as soon as they are in your bloodstream. I was using it 3x a day about a year ago when I was at the low point of things. I'm still using it about once a day. If I skip a day I will definitely notice that my digestive system is getting rid of the toxins instead. Sorry if this is TMI but its very apparent to me that the toxins come out one way or another and through the skin in the sauna is quickest path.

--

Positive Lyme test via IGeneX Western Blot, Cpni probable but unconfirmed by ELISA testing, Babesia also likely.

Buhner and Cowden herbal protocolsi, NACi, Artemisinin, Xylitol, Lactoferrin, other supps, essential oils, sauna

Thanks so much Dylan!

I am not just feeling better….I have my life back. It has been a haul and from many different angles. Wahls diet, supplementsi, exercise, thyroid, hormones blah blah.  Lol  The Wahls diet was the massive change—and then the fine tuning.  And it is a rocky road--just had to have my thyroid and hormones adjusted....again. I was in a funk –and then the stress of my father’s death etc..

So, life is good.  As MacIntosh once said—do I want to stir up the bacteria again?  Denial is a killer, so I am back.

I like your system— but it is always the porphyriai.  Today I started to take olive leaf extract—it’s a baby step.    I want a plan that I can live with--lol  and if I am sick and depressed then I want it to be on Friday Saturday and Sunday—I have school three days a week.  J

Several weeks ago I started to lay in the sun (since we live in a sauna called Florida J )—grounding too.  Lol  Wow—sweat tons and felt great.  Have repeated many times and have started walking in the 90ish degree heat.  I am sweating buckets…tired but rested.  It is tough—45 minutes or more with hills.  Could not have done that 3 years ago. Last month I just had to rest three times (flat on my back) during  the walk,  now just once.  Making improvements.  My husband—what a rock.

How do we know what we are sweating out?  And are there other benefits? We are not sweating out porphyrins—correct?  How does this work?

No question I feel hugely better—I totally believe you.
Curious if there is  any other evidence?

Always enjoy your posts!

Katherine

 

Well definitely glad to hear that you have your life back :) I too feel like I am getting there. I spent the last few weeks trekking across Scandinavia, a trip that would have been unthinkable this time a year ago when I was struggling to walk a few blocks to work. Killing Cpni, no matter how, really does work wonders.

I don't know exactly what sauna users are sweating out, but since you asked I will try to give the best answer I can, even if its TMI (sorry).

What I have found is that I think pretty much all the toxins released by killing Cpn are water soluble. This might involve some processing by the liver, but ultimately everything can either be sweated or urinated out. The point at which things start getting dumped into the digestive tract is when the other organs of elimination are overwhelmed. It seems to be sort of an emergency blowoff valve of sorts, but I think it is much more quick and efficient to get rid of the toxicity quickly through water based means. The digestive tract is slow and is designed to absorb things, not prevent their reabsorption (hence the need for moppers). I think the quest for moppers is somewhat misguided, if you can prevent the toxins from entering your digestive tract to begin with, you won't need any moppers.

However, if you are killing lots of Cpn, more that the other pathways of elimination can handle, then some of the toxins will be routed to the liver, dumped into bile and enter your digestive tract. Its only now after almost a couple of years of killing Cpn that my levels are low enough that they seem to be all managed by water based elimination. So moppers may still be required. I never ended up using them. I found that it was better to not and allow your body to realize something toxic was being reabsorbed and thus flush things quickly (so to speak).

Anyway, to conclude this, I think one of the main reasons the treatment takes so long (on the order of years) is that your body only has so much detoxification capacity. If you exceed what it can handle efficiently, you start to use inefficient pathways (and need moppers). If you can help it to eliminate things with less energy then you'll have more energy to expend on other parts of your life. The sauna (according to my recent visit to Finland) has been used for thousands of years and is designed to help you sweat. Florida is certainly hot but traditional sauna temps are 100C (212F) which will probably induce more sweating than even a Florida summer.

--

Positive Lyme test via IGeneX Western Blot, Cpni probable but unconfirmed by ELISA testing, Babesia also likely.

Buhner and Cowden herbal protocolsi, NACi, Artemisinin, Xylitol, Lactoferrin, other supps, essential oils, sauna

Your post, Dylan is extremely useful.  I hadn't realised this, to quote "....but I think it is much more quick and efficient to get rid of the toxicity quickly through water based means."  

May i add, that i think andy cutler in his mercury detox book would say, whilst using the sauna use an absorbant rag/towel to mop up the sweat, quite fast and often.  He says this because any mercury sweated out can be reabsorbed by the body really fast, in fact before even one could walk to the shower.   Then throw the rag.  I suppose though that he may b e talking about during chelation therapy, so not sure if any will come out during abxi therapy. 

 

I reallly must get a sauna, its on the to do list and this post/thread has urged me to get a move on.  However, i have also heard of a near infared sauna being better?, so i have to look into this.  Also on the to do list!!

 

So good to hear of people feeling good/better.

Po

x

Female UK. High EBVi, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpni-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infectionsi also aspergillus

Hi - the information on the sauna & infra red sauna as a method to sweat out the toxins makes sense.  But the slightest rise in heat say anything beyond 70 degrees F makes me feel like I am encased in concrete and I can not move.  When the temperature drops I have more energy, can think better and actually move a little better.

So my question is how does the heat from the sauna not cause this heat MSi immobilization process?

I read with interest of people feeling better and moving much better after the sauna and wonder if perhaps y'll have been on CAPi protoccol longer and no longer have such heat issues?

Just wondering ......

Thanks,

Louise_C

03-23-2013
PPMSi  - May 2009, working with Naturopath since 2009, taking listed supplement_s, plus LDNi 4.5 and L-Arginine Plus.
[had CCSVI in 2011 - helped a little]
Doxyi 200 mg, Azithromycin 250 M - W - F and NACi 600 mg.

 

Dylan, thanks for your informative post.  Which moppers did you try when you say "they did not work" it might be interesting to know.  I bought the 200 Sauna and was not displeased but got it at a point when I had turned the corner and had already been coming up from being laid low and down so cannot say anything really except I sure did sweat but not used enough.  Could not leave it set up and that was the likely reason even thought it was easy to set up.  Maybe I will have a go again at it this winter!

I know Dr Powell recommends sauna and I pay close attention to anyone who shares his treatment perspectives for them as he may be the best all around practitioner who really understands a huge range of chronic debilitating diesease presentations.     I also find that your sharing of Cannabis Oil intreging and which you would blog more about your process.  Herbs are the prcursors to the development of many drugs.  I may try and learn more if motivated to use them as a back up.  Have  you or do you intend to start CAPi or are you set for the current time?

Speaking about herbals I began a tincture in April and have continued as it has been uplifting it is Rhodiola Extract 2 droppers worth 1 - 2 times a day, not after say 2 -3 pm or could keep you up at night.  I get the Oregon's Wild Harvest Brand local $12.55 may  do better online shopping.  There are a number of forms of the Rhodiola or should I say varieties of the plant and this company is the real deal.  A few clerks at the health food store have tried the capsule and they agree that the Tincture is more obviously effective better stlll if on an empty stomach but do take it in 2 - 4 oz of water as it is quite tart taken straight (unless you happen to like that sort of thing!)

Oh, Dylan, Please keep up your blog you are the only Cannabis Oil user that I am aware of or at least posts.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Dylan,

Endo toxins are lipophillic not water soluable, but the skin does exude oils so the sauna could be causing the oil which may contain toxins to be excreted.  Or perhaps the sauna kills C.Pn. that is at the surface level by the effect of the raising of the surface temperature.   The liver does detox the lypophylic endotoxinsi released by C.PN.  and the liver is a common place the gets infected with C.PN. the Kupfer cells in the liver are very attractive to the C.Pn. bacteria!  If you make less bile you get a stronger infection in the liver that was my case and a source of my profound fatigued state. 

Dylan, I cannot tell from your Signature your dxi symptoms and don't fully remember your story.  That you can move fairly well last year even if you could not trek Scandinavia is less affected neurologically  than some here on this website. 

I don't think my popup sauna got that hot so the fins are more conditioned to heat and it would be interesting to know it they have less C.Pn. intheir population or even MS in their society?

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Hi Katherine,  Working backwards through posts since being away for two weeks on a family vacation in the NY Aderondack Mountains.  Left the day you posted this thread and returned two days ago now.

I see that Jen has started the Mopper and Detox forum topic she writes so logically and systematically, thanks Jen.

I need to say again before it becomes popular opinion that Endotoxinsi releases are lipophyllic that is fat based.   I learned this from some of DW comments years ago I believe.   Dylans posts are a good addition and add another possible approach to C.PN with the Cannabis oil but he has not spent years on CAPi or reading years of archival posts by reliable informants and this change of thinking regarding water based is WAY OF BASE and could be very detrimental thinking PoHead.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

So far I've just been following what could be described as a phenomenological approach to healing myself - I try to observe how I feel day to day and adjust treatment accordingly. What I've noticed about the sauna is that the times where I sweat more I also have less toxins to move through the digestive system and vice versa. From what I understand the liver conjugates certain toxins to make them water soluble. I don't know if this is true for all toxins caused by Cpni infection, but in my experience the majority seem to be able to be excreted through different channels. When I am killing Cpn less aggressively the water based means seem to cope with most of the die off. When I have gone through periods of extreme die off, my digestive system will be working overtime. This leads me to believe that the body can get rid of the same toxins through different pathways, which would make sense evolutionarily, build in some redundancy and emergency valves for a more robust system.

In the end I'm just trying to share what I have observed and has worked for me. I tried using charcoal moppers but I found that they just kind of stopped me up. I don't have access to Cholestyramine but on paper it sounds pretty good. I'm not against moppers in principle and I think they could be invaluable for some people dealing with heat intolerance and high toxicity loads. I just wrote to encourage people to think outside the, er, tube, as it were. The body has multiple organs of elimination so to focus on only one is in my view somewhat myopic.

--

Positive Lyme test via IGeneX Western Blot, Cpni probable but unconfirmed by ELISA testing, Babesia also likely.

Buhner and Cowden herbal protocolsi, NACi, Artemisinin, Xylitol, Lactoferrin, other supps, essential oils, sauna

Thanks Louise,  Luckilly i caught that, so hard to keep track of everything.  I hear you: " Endotoxinsi<i< releases are lipophyllic that is fat based. "  So, the cholystyramine should be good for this.  I am able to get this, but my problem is that i have a gall stone which i think is a bit of a contra-indication??  I have used it but only half a packet, am too scared to use more .  I have just one stone and so think it is cholesteroli one.  In fact on tx, i was not too mussy, which would be my main reason for mopping, so i was ok, just extremely tired.  But shall re- read jen's post and the suggestions there.  Po - x

Female UK. High EBVi, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpni-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infectionsi also aspergillus

PO,

Profound fatigue was one of my primary symptoms.   I have Gall Stones have know this for about 30 years.   Almost had it out at one point, the surgeon sure wanted to take it.   It is not infected if it had been then I would have had it out.  I rarely have attacks only a few and because of stupidity of what I ate in excess.  Not cholesteroli based,  Cholystramine does not stimulate the GB to contract.   Do you have attacks and how frequently. Attacks that cause the stone to push on the gb to get out.  Do you avoid fats, any fats one eats simulate the gb through the stomach receptors for fat that signal the GB to contract.   In itself cholystyramine does not affect the GB.  It cleanses the bile of fats which contain the toxins released at the cells begin to heal from CPNi ABXi treatment.

Fatigue is related to toxins and porphyrins.  I am not sure what mussy is might that be brainfog?

Urosodiol is a treatment for Cholestrol based gall stones.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Heat is know to weaken many people with MSi makes neural transmission less possible and results in loss of function.  Those with other expressions of C.PN. often do fine Sauna helpful.  When I see comments that begin to depart from the science that I know I give my perspective .

Do you have MS dxi, ME, Chronic Fatigue, Fibro etc???? Or simply an elevated lab value which make you think that you are treating C.Pn. bacteria.  I cannot see from your signature only your herbal approach.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

I have Asperger's syndrome and have also had increasing symptoms associated with CFSi/FM more recently. I reacted strongly to NACi and this is what originally led me to the site. It would be nice to be able to take a test to gauge Cpni levels and chart treatment progression, but from what I have read here they aren't really accurate enough to work in this way. It seems that the treatment really is more qualitative than quantitative at this point.

--

Positive Lyme test via IGeneX Western Blot, Cpni probable but unconfirmed by ELISA testing, Babesia also likely.

Buhner and Cowden herbal protocolsi, NACi, Artemisinin, Xylitol, Lactoferrin, other supps, essential oils, sauna

Dylan, From reports here, it seems cpni testing has improved noticeably in the last year or two.  You might want to give it a shot.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Hi Louise,  Sorry so long to get back to you.  Dont reallly know what i was talking about, upon further googling.  Its not a contra-indication as far as i can see.  I think maybe i was worried about it dissolving the gall stone, but thats not what cholystyramine seems to do.  I think i was just being careful at the time.  So now i could take more.  I have one large gall stone about 16 mm, so it should not fit through the bile duct.  I think the bigger ones are safer cos they cant get through.  So i am ok, so long as it stays that size.  I am lucky.  I dont seem to have any probs and can eat what i like. 

 

Yes mussy headed, brain fog , dont want to do anything, cant do anything.  Thats how i am on abxi, and must blog soon about my next stage.

Po

Female UK. High EBVi, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpni-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infectionsi also aspergillus

Sure thing PO.  Thanks for responding.  I am way behind on my reading here so glad that I saw this.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

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