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Lyme Bacteria Linger In Tissue After Antibiotic Treatment ..

Submitted by jeanneroz on Sun, 2008-04-06 16:39.
... same old bologna

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JeanneRoz~CPNii diagnosed & started protocol 4/2007, also HHV6, EBVii. CFIDSii/FM diagnosed: 6/07; 100mg/doxyii/BID ~ 250 mg AZITH M/W/F ~1st Tiniii pulse 4/17/08- 1 250 mg. tab for 2 days. Pulse 5: 9/28/08, 250 mg TINI BID, 3 days. Sup

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oops.. forgot to include the

Submitted by jeanneroz on Sun, 2008-04-06 16:42.

oops.. forgot to include the "closing"

In the case of Lyme disease, the research findings do not suggest that continued use of antibioticsi would succeed in getting rid of the lingering bacteria. "I suspect that if the initial round of antibiotics hasn't eliminated them, it's not likely that a longer regimen of antibiotics would be any more successful," Barthold said.

"It's more likely that a completely different class of antibiotics would be needed to accomplish that. This laboratory mouse model will allow us to address those possibilities."

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Jeanneroz ~CPNi 4/2007; HHV6, EBVi, CFIDSi/FM- diagnosed: 6/07; IBSi, prior kidney infectionsi, food allergies, hypothyroid (RAI for Graves in 1998), Adrenal issues; prior bronchitis/sinus problemsi. 200 mg/doxyi daily & 250 mg AZITH M/W/F, supplmnts

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JeanneRoz~CPNi diagnosed & started protocol 4/2007, also HHV6, EBVi. CFIDSi/FM diagnosed: 6/07; 100mg/doxyi/BID ~ 250 mg AZITH M/W/F ~1st Tinii pulse 4/17/08- 1 250 mg. tab for 2 days. Pulse 5: 9/28/08, 250 mg TINI BID, 3 days. Sup

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eureka, lol Glad to see you

Submitted by ruthless1 on Sun, 2008-04-06 16:47.

eureka, lol

Glad to see you sunshine!!

CFIDSi/ME 25yrs, FMSi, IBSi, EBVi, Cpni, (insomnia - melatonini, GABA, tarazadone, triazolam, novocycloprine, allergy formula, 3 gm tryptophan), Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse8 750mg 4day,375X1 3-24-8

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CFIDSi/ME 32 yrs, FMSi, IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, chronic insomnia, Lymes, HME, Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse#14 1000 mg X 5 days 9-19-08

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 Not quite the same old 

Submitted by Jim K on Sun, 2008-04-06 21:04.

 Not quite the same old  bologna...

The article notes that there has been no scientific proof that Borrelia continues in tissue, hence the controversy about long term antibiotic treatment, so this study at least demonstrates quite clearly that viable bacteria are still present. To whit:

"Ticks allowed to feed on these (treated but still- ed) infected mice were also able to acquire and transmit the infectious bacteria. Curiously, despite the apparent viability of the bacteria, they could not be detected by standard laboratory cultures."

This is a rather shocking finding, and I'm surprised that they did not make more of it. In other words, they did not just detect bacterial DNA still present, but ticks biting the treated mice became Lyme carriers, even though the researchers couldn't culture the Borrelia from the same mice.  That's an amazing finding, and certainly is supportive of chronic Lyme patients having an on-going reservoir of viable, infecting bacteria.

The thing that is unclear is how they measured lack of on-going inflammationi. They don't say, and since mice can't report very well they would have to be using some chemical signature for this, yes? 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Protocol: 200mg Doxyi, 250mg MWF Azith, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D1000 units, Iodoral 50mg, T4 & T3

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CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 150mg BID Roxithromycin, Doxycycline 100mg BID, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3

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If doctors and patients

Submitted by Michele on Mon, 2008-04-07 02:36.

If doctors and patients alike were more ready to accept that tests have not yet been developped that can give us all the answers, this would indeed be a step forward.   I suppose you could say we are 'lucky' in the UK, that the culture of testing is much more low key in general medicine.  

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

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Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

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I think this is just one

Submitted by Sojourner on Mon, 2008-04-07 09:32.
I think this is just one more reason why CAPi is such a sound plan. Intermittent treatment seems all the more necessary when we realize we can never totally eradicate these buggers. Continuing abxi off and on after initial treatment seems to make so much sense and is often overlooked. --------------- "Chance favors the prepared mind." --Louis Pasteur Husband treating MS with CAP

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--------------- "Chance favors the prepared mind." --Louis Pasteur Husband treating MSi with CAPi

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Jim, true... What you point

Submitted by jeanneroz on Mon, 2008-04-07 10:11.

Jim, true... What you point out is VERY interesting  

I was looking at the "same ole" perspective as being -- ONE antibiotic only for treatment and to them long term was ONE month... 

I always reflect on a comment a couple of months ago that Daisy made re we have about 10 BILLION cells in our body..... 10 billion?  one month???  I just find medical "science's" perspective a bit off sometimes for length of treatment.

Oh well, interesting reading..

Jeanneroz ~CPNi 4/2007; HHV6, EBVi, CFIDSi/FM- diagnosed: 6/07; IBSi, prior kidney infectionsi, food allergies, hypothyroid (RAI for Graves in 1998), Adrenal issues; prior bronchitis/sinus problemsi. 200 mg/doxyi daily & 250 mg AZITH M/W/F, supplmnts

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JeanneRoz~CPNi diagnosed & started protocol 4/2007, also HHV6, EBVi. CFIDSi/FM diagnosed: 6/07; 100mg/doxyi/BID ~ 250 mg AZITH M/W/F ~1st Tinii pulse 4/17/08- 1 250 mg. tab for 2 days. Pulse 5: 9/28/08, 250 mg TINI BID, 3 days. Sup

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Jim, I too, think this is a

Submitted by NellyP on Mon, 2008-04-07 10:44.
Jim, I too, think this is a VERY interesting study, although I am sad the authors did not keep some of the mice alive to see if they became obviously ill after a longer period of time. But the necropsied them all. Not only did the ceftriaxone treated mice transmit these "altered, non-dividing" spirochetes to the ticks that were allowed to feed on them, but the ticks thus infected were able to infect other mice, so the "altered, non-dividing" spirochetes that were so hard to find in the first place were intact as far as infectivity was concerned. And I don't know if that will answer your question re how they looked at lack of inflammationi in the mice Quote from the full text of the study: "Finally, joints (knees and tibiotarsi) and hearts of the SCID mice were examined for histopathology. None of the SCID mouse tissues had microscopic evidence of inflammation, despite the high prevalence of B.burgdorferi ospA DNA in hearts and joints, and the propensity 1 of infected C3H-scid mice to develop progressively severe inflammation (8)." If you're interested, I'll send you the full text as an attachment in an e-mail Nelly (France-neuroLyme and ????)

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Nelly (France-neuroLyme and ????)

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ditto, my thought exactly. 

Submitted by ruthless1 on Mon, 2008-04-07 14:32.

ditto, my thought exactly.  Just because they can't detect it at this time, doesn't mean we can deny existence!

My memory is  bad, but I watched this show, a one man crew, testing mosquito larvae for aids?  He found some positive which would mean there was a transfer of the virus to a mosquitos own eggs!  Don't know how valid the research was, we can't believe everything we see & read.

CFIDSi/ME 25yrs, FMSi, IBSi, EBVi, Cpni, (insomnia - melatonini, GABA, tarazadone, triazolam, novocycloprine, allergy formula, 3 gm tryptophan), Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse8 750mg 4day,375X1 3-24-8

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CFIDSi/ME 32 yrs, FMSi, IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, chronic insomnia, Lymes, HME, Natural HRT peri-M, NACi 2.5 gm, 6-07 Doxy 200 mg day pm, Azith 375 mg M/W/Fday, Pulse#14 1000 mg X 5 days 9-19-08

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 iInteresting thread and

Submitted by Daisy on Mon, 2008-04-07 18:06.

 iInteresting thread and comments! 

Even more mind blowing it's actually 50 trillion cells - yup trillion with a T in which CPNi and Lyme could be hiding.

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.   Roxyi, Diflucan round three 4-3, Rifampin, Bactrim DS, Mepron, Prednisone, Novantrone, Doxyi, Azithromycin, Flagyli, Minoi

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Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

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Ruth,  Months before your

Submitted by cypriane on Mon, 2008-04-07 20:13.

Ruth,  Months before your arrival on the scene, it was revealed on Cpnhelp.org that (<mosquito spit is the "silver bullet" that zaps AIDS.>)  Now, where's that thread?

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpn, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

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Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

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