Cpnhelp.org - Chlamydia Pneumoniae Treatment

It's not just toxins that are hard on the liver, but liver cells themselves are often infected with Cpni. So a pulse can initiate apoptosisi (natural die off) of liver cells themselves. You probably will have worse porphyriai symptoms from this as well. A few people have been able to bring these enzymes down by daily milk thistle use, or a presription liver support called Urso Forte. But you may need to take a break from the CAPi until your enzymes normalize. See what your doc says.

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CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 150mg BID Roxithromycin, Doxycycline 100mg BID, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3

my doc said to check up my liver functions in 2-3 months.

Probably it would help if i dont do hard pulses to give some time to liver and body to normalize after cell deathi. what do you think?

Yes i have noticed the porphyriaii symptoms too, increased. I take another medicine now for liver, hopefully it will help too.

I wonder if it would've effected that i had a really bad virus infection a week before the test. Infected my stomach, colon, diarrhea and bad fever. I wonder if this can effect liver as well.

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doxy200, azith250, NACi 2400, Metroi 1250(once a month), supplementsi, vitaminsi.

Veressv, Would you be willing to set up a signature regarding your CAPi meds, dates started and dosages?  It make it easier to answer you posts with some background information at hand. Thanks, Louise

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Louise  CFSi, CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai & Endotoxinsi PRN, Doxyi 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 12.5mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

Doxyi 200mg, azith 250 (every other day), NACi 2400mg, once a month flagyli pulse(last time 10 days pulse). Vitaminsi and supplementsi. Started CAPi in April. Question would be if the enzimes can normalize while doing CAP? When i dont take flagyl i am quite fine so that's the main problem i guess.Doxy and azith shouldn't that hard on liver i guess. My doc is very good in general but his  knowledge isnt very wide on CPNi. He thinks it is only because of medicines and not related to CPN at all.

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doxy200, azith250, NACi 2400, Metroi 1250(once a month), supplementsi, vitaminsi.

Veressv, if you go to my account in the box under your user name.  You will find a way to add a signature that will automatically attach to all of your posts.  It is good practice to change it when you change your treatment plan so that responses can be address to your current situtation.  Thanks for the one time update but it works better for you if you add it to a permanent signature.  We simply cannot keep up with where everyone here is on this journey.

Louise

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Louise  CFSi, CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai & Endotoxinsi PRN, Doxyi 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 12.5mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

Veressv, I have and elevated liver enzymes (all three routine screening tests) in the mid range since my start with Doxyi they worked upwards quickly.  I read in the information that some people are sensitive to Doxy and get these drug related liver elevations.  Your number seems to be within the 3x normal range that most accept as tolerable as a side effect of therapy. 

I would believe your doctor it it were me with your number at this point that it is the med, but that is just my opinion. 

For myself, adding Roxi and adding tinii pulses did not change my results at all.  Even backing down my doxy prior to adding the two others not lower the enzymes.  My MD watches my numbers and they are stable in the mid elevation range.  He has me take silymarin 80% 600 to 900 mg per day.   He has not insisted on an abxi vacation yet but could this fall.  

Pulses are known to be difficult symptomatically so many experience being not well while doing them. 

Keep us posted.  And if youi could add the information to a signature.

Thanks, Louise

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Louise  CFSi, CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai & Endotoxinsi PRN, Doxyi 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 12.5mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

well, when i started taking the abxi my liver functions were alright for a while. But since i had some really hard pulses the first time that my liver functions increased. So somehow i relate it to CPNi and its die off as well. But maybe i am mistaken....

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doxy200, azith250, NACi 2400, Metroi 1250(once a month), supplementsi, vitaminsi.

I take SAM-e (S-Adenosylmethionine) for mood. My liver tests are always low-normal so far, even right after a flagyli pulse.  I'm not saying that's the reason but I wonder if there is some truth to the claim that SAM-e helps protect against liver damage. It might be something to ask your doctor about.

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GFAi - asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started azi 1000mg/week Jan 9, '08. Increased azi to 250mg/day, added 20mg Benicar daily Mar 13, '08. First Flagyli pulse started June 30, '08. Added Doxyi 200mg/day Aug 16.

Hi Sunni, I just finished my first bottle of Sam-e with complementing Bvit supplement as directed.  What dose are you on currently?  I just upped to 600 mg/ day 400 mg first thing in a.m. with the B complex and 200 mg in afternoon.  I am also taking the pyruvate mid morning and S.O.D.3 (beef liver source) and am beginning to see a nice lift to my energy that is lasting longer into the evening.  I would say I have a methylation imbalance based on my response.  Sam-e was the last to be added and I am getting better than better.  Still I do continue intermittent cholestyramine to keep my porphoria levels down that helped and was the first of these supportive methods that worked for me.

Many folks do not get tested for liver enzymes and more are likely elevated some than know.  Medications are often a trade off.  I have no concious awareness that would tip me off about the moderately elevated liver enzymes.  And I am much better on the CAP now into the 2 year leg of the journey, than I was prior to starting.  NACi is said to be liver protective as well and well, I just have these elevations from unexplained causes except several MD's believe that they are medication induced.   Oh I have read that gluten enteropathy can be a source of liver enzyme elevations and although I have eaten gluten free for the better part of 20years, I finally got a postive on a saliva test this past spring.  My blood work remains negative.

 

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Louise  CFSi, CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai & Endotoxinsi PRN, Doxyi 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 12.5mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

i wonder where i can get this. SAM-e (S-Adenosylmethionine).  is it a medicine or supplement? I read really good about it online though...

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doxy200, azith250, NACi 2400, Metroi 1250(once a month), supplementsi, vitaminsi.

You can get SAMe at most supplement stores. I get mine at Costco but it's easy to order online too.

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GFAi - asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started azi 1000mg/week Jan 9, '08. Increased azi to 250mg/day, added 20mg Benicar daily Mar 13, '08. First Flagyli pulse started June 30, '08. Added Doxyi 200mg/day Aug 16.

Louise, I only take 200mg/day now. I took 400mg/day a while back. I've been using it a couple years now, long before I started abxi, so maybe my liver had a protection head start by the time I got on abxi. I've read it takes 6-8 weeks to build up full blood levels of SAMe so if you just finished your first bottle you probably haven't had time to see the full benefit. Since it takes so long to build up in the system it has a long half-life and I wouldn't bother splitting the doses. I bought double-strength once (400mg/tab) because it was cheaper per mg and I just took 1 tab every other day to get my 200mg/day and it seemed to work just as well that way. I don't know what the optimal dosage is. I cut back because it's kind of expensive and, as far as mood/energy goes, I got a more dramatic and immediate effect from rhodiola rosea so that's my main "mood" supplement now. I just keep taking a little SAMe for good measure. :)

 

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GFAi - asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started azi 1000mg/week Jan 9, '08. Increased azi to 250mg/day, added 20mg Benicar daily Mar 13, '08. First Flagyli pulse started June 30, '08. Added Doxyi 200mg/day Aug 16.

Sunni, I ordered from www.wholehealth.com and there were very good instructions with the order as well as a free bottle of B 50 complex as they are very explicit that one needs to be sure to take B vits or you may be doing more harm than good.  They also include instructions for increasing dosage and response times. Their info says that it has a rapid onset time and I will say that has been true for me.

Pricing for 30 tablet bottle of SAM-e 200mg is 11.64 all orders over $75 ship free postage and shipping was prompt same day shipping on orders by 4:00PM EST.  I originally was out to purchase only powder form of  capsule Calcium Pyruvate  750 mg. Cost for pyruvate was  300 capsules 26.60 per bottle. They may have more of our supplement list I will check when I begin to get low on other supplementsi.

A member here helped me out with this source when I shared my difficulties with the large dense tablet form of Pyruvate.  I have been really pleased with this tip.

SAM-e is helping with my energy my mood was not low.  The included information reported that it has fewer side effect and a more rapid onset of action that tricyclics.  It also included cautions and warnings very comprehensive information for a neutraceutical.  After a month on this new combo of energy enhancing supplementsi I will write it as a blog. 

It is great that with persistencei you have been able to go on the full CAP. 

Veressv Not sure where you are on the planet, on our side of the big pond it is an over the counter neutraceutical.   

Sunni glad you are finding an herbal helpful.  Good to know there are other possibilities out there.

Veressv thanks for asking your question.  Often brings other good information to light too!

Louise

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Louise  CFSi, CPN+/Bb+,Wheldon CAPi 6/07, Cholestyramine 1-2 pks @ HS for Porphyriai & Endotoxinsi PRN, Doxyi 200daily, Roxi 300BID, Tini500BIDx14day pulses,VitD3-10,000IU, Iodoral 12.5mg, {S.O.D.3/QD[KAL Brand], Pyruvate 3.75G, SAM-e For Energy Support

Hi vik,

Im no expert but Id venture to guess that it was a combo of all the things that you mentioned. The stomach virus plus the metroi pulse and the zithro was probably all too much for it to handle at any given time. I'd start on some milk thistle maybe, and that sam-e stuff sounds good too. I have a feeling though its also like Jim said where the liver is infected and undergoing apoptosisi. That theory makes so much sense to me. I remember in my case both when i took the long term biaxin and this time as well... I actually could sit and watch my liver spasm as the antibioticsi got in there. Cpni can and does infect the liver, Im sure of it.

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CPNi pcri and antibody positive , treating MSi, CFSi, TMJ, trigeminal neuralgia, IBSi neutropenia, pus found in facial bone, Doxyi 100x2,Doxy 200x2 zithro 250x1 alternate days. Metroi pulses each month.

Jenie, Jim, Louise: Thanks to ya'all for your input here. I think Jim was right there. I went for another liver test (2 weeks after the previous one) and this has been almost a month after the 10 days hard pulse.

Surprisingly almost all values (6 liver functions) went back to normal. Only one stayed on 54 while the normal range is 6-40. I think this is minor since all the rest of the values are absolutely in normal range. But thanks for all the suggestions i start to take both supplementsi recommended in this post. I read really good about them. Thanks a lot again....

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doxy200, azith250, NACi 2400, Metroi 1250(once a month), supplementsi, vitaminsi.