I AM ON MY 4TH WEEK OF DR. HAHN'S TREATMENT, CAN I JUMP INTO STRATTON'S PROTOCOL OR SHOULD I FINISH DR.HAHNS FIRST?

Hello,

I recently acquired a severe asthmai problem last year in November 2014. I visited two different doctors, one in Mexico and one in the U.S. and they both diagnosed me with this issue after multiple tests.

After strenuous research I came accross www.asthmastory.com< which is where I found Dr. Hahn's mono antiobiotic treatment with azithromycin. I am on my fourth week and I have a chronic pain on the right side of my chest. I had it before in my solar plexus but it went away after the 2nd week of treatment and now it has resurfaced in this new area. Is this a normal side effect symptom of treatment?

I have a few questions:

Can I jump from Dr.Hann's treatmen to Dr.Stratton's if I have been 1 month on azithromycin or should I finish the 12 weeks of Dr.Hahn's first?

Does anyone now a Cpni doctor in San Diego willing to help?

I had to get my antibioticsi in Mexico with a prescription from my surgeon uncle. For a more complex treatment like Stratton's I would like to consult someone in San Diego but I don't know anyone and I am so broke.

Can someone give me some pointers please?

Cheers,

Ivan

Hello Ivan, I can see no problem about just changing treatments if you want to and also, since there is so much information both on this site and my husband's site<. which is not just about MS, I can see no real reason to wait until you can find a doctor, especially if you have an uncle able to write the prescriptions.  There are lots of people here who now are no longer troubled with asthmai, me one of them, although I was far more worried about my MS than anything else.  There will always be someone willing to answer any questions.........................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I just saw your response Sarah! Thank you! Sincerely! Is your husband Dr. Wheldon?

He thinks it's ok to add on antibioticsi?

Thanks so much again!

That is so amzaing about MSi! Someone deserves a nobel prize!

Ivan

Yes he is, and he would never use just one antibiotic for long term treatment...........Sarah 

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

So if I have been on Azithromychyn for 5 weeks and I am meant to do the treatment for 12.

And the combined treatment protocolsi here on cpnhelp.org indicate that the treatment should be for at leat 12 weeks long as well. Should I just add the other two antibioticsi to finish of my 12 weeks or do I have to add another twelve weeks? In addition, when will I know when I am finished with the treatment or how long should I take it for?

Thanks again for your time and help Sarah,

Ivan

Oceano, This treatment is meant to be a minimum of a year, not twelve weeks long.

I am removing your private email address from your post.  Please send it to Sarah in a private message.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Is anyone afraid of antibioticsi causing more permament damage at all? That is what's intimidating to me in taking that much antibiotics.

In addition, how often do you take supplementsi to protect some of your organs such as your liver and gastro intestinal tract? 

Thanks

Hi Oceano,

I'm no expert, and I know there are some more "modern" antibioticsi that can do things like actually damage your tendons.  I believe monitoring liver function is likely important - my son's doctor has him take tests regularly.  He's on a Stratton version of the CAPi protocol, one of the two outlined in the site in getting started or elsewhere.  That means he's using Rifampin every day instead of pulsing with Tinii or Metroi (short names for them) - the two other options commonly referred to by folks here.

I believe there are rare serious side effects of Tini and Metro to worry about on top of the doxyi and azithro - and Rifampin can be difficult and has some potentially serious side effects.  Rick even recenlty had a bit of an "episode" that may have been his liver - but was addressed.

All that said, I would have to say that for Rick and given the agressive nature of his MSi prior to starting his CAP protocol, that I'm very much more concerned with the long term damage that he has already had lots of - his edssi scale is likely close to 7 after only 8 or 9 years.  Given 10 is passing on, and his specific situation, the risk reward ratio seems heavily slanted in favor of continuing his CAP protocol.

For those with less serious diseasesi, like me for instance - the risk reward may not be as compelling or urgent.  I'm just now in the next several months going to be starting a protocol that willl "prepare" me for a much shorter CAP protocol than Rick is likely to need.

This stuff, specifically the decision to proceed with a CAP protocol, seems a very personal decision folks need to make when they have thoroughly researched the subject and are in a position to make an informed decision.

The good news - for those that do and also attend this forum - is that there are a ton of very knowledgeble people who have "walked the walk" - most personally, some as "proxies" for another person, a family member or friend.  There are very tangible and intangible benefits both, to being a member of this forum if you do decide to do undertake a CAP protocol.

Whatever your malady, my best wishes for as complete, smooth and fast a recovery as possible.

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom C

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAPi in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

No, Oceano - The protocol is designed specifically to be tolerable for long periods of time and to NOT develop resistance in the bacteria.  (That is why we take two abxi, simultaneously.)

We take the supplementsi every day.

Please read the pages Sarah has referred you to.  There, Dr. Wheldon explains the treatment, including what you take and why you take each one.  Though his pages speak of multiple sclerosisi, the treatment is the same for ANY cpni infection.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Hi Tom,

Thank you for your heart felt comment. I'm feeling more inclined to adding the doxycycline to my already 5 weeks of azithromycin. Rifampin sounds narly. What sideffects have you heard from Rifampin? I talked to Dr. Stratton today and he suggested I add 600mg a day of Rifampin, 7 days a week on top of my 750mg weekly of azithromycin. Therefore, my dilemma.

Cheers, Tom

Hi Oceano,

I suggest reading the detailed list of side effects for Rifampin - here's one source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifampicin#Adverse_effects<

What Rick has experienced primarily is stomach upset, maybe due to changing the balance of his "biota" in his stomach.  Antibioticsi delivered orally likely kill at least some of the germs that inhabit the digestive system. His stomach upset was bad for a bit, he's not very good at taking his probiotics.  On the other hand, he started making his own sauerkraut (with help) and eating Kimchi.  Not a lot but it could have made a difference.  He hasn't reported any stomach issues for quite some time now.

He had an incident a few weeks ago, that caused his doctor to suggest a couple of weeks hiatus.  A pain in and around an area that apparently suggested it could be the liver.  Rick went to a half dose for a couple of days - and has started treatment at a chiropractor.  The pain could have been due to very poor posture, like a pulled muscle in his ribs or something.  Seems most likely as it hasn't come back and there are no other signs of liver problems.

His experience so far has been relatively smooth.  He was hoping to have a faster recovery, but ever so slowly I've been successfully helping him to reset his expectations.  Mainly by mentioning the stories here folks have shared, one example being Bodecia's mentioning it took 3 years to see the first significant "glimmers."

Oh, one last thing - I don't think I saw anyone else mention it - NACi is supposed to be protective for the liver, and is a part of the protocol.

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom C

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAPi in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

Oceano, these are my words: I have not asked either my husband or Dr Stratton what I should say: for an ongoing routing of a chlamydia pneumoniae infection, rifampicin is hard to beat and Stratton now recommends it by preference.  However, especially in the early days of treatment, it is very hard to cope with and I know of several people who have given up in agony.  David stopped prescribing it for his MSi patients for this reason as much as the fact that in the UK it is reserved for treating people with tuberculosis, which has once more become a problem in this country with immigration.

When I started treatment, I used doxycycline as the first antibiotic, then added roxithromycin: similar to azithromycin then after three months added metronidazolei, another tough antibiotic but manageable for me after three months.  I managed to do a full five day pulse of this straight off but some people take much longer.  It wasn't nice and had the tendency to make me very depressed and tearful, but this went as soon as I finished each pulse.

I replaced doxycycline with rifampicin after six months, on Stratton's recommendation to David but even after this time, it knocked me sideways but by not starting it straight away it was kind off manageable.  I really don't know how much of my improvement can be put down to rifampcini because the biggest improvements to my mind happened even before I started it my intelligence had returned and I was well on the way back to get my artistic skills back.  My adult onset asthmai also disappeared during this time.  The biggest changes in my mri brain scan also happened before I started rifampicin.  This isn't the same with everyone though: but with rifampicin you do need to keep a close check on your liver and have it tested regularly for damage. 

Now, having read your profile, I see that you are a Mexican but living in San Diego, Roxithromycin is available in Mexico so would your uncle be willing to prescribe that for you in place of azithromycin: you do take it every day but it is much easier to take and who knows, maybe it is partly why I made such a good recovery so comparitively quickly.

One more thing though: the pain in your solar plexus: this isn't a result of taking antibioticsi and is nothing to do with asthma so it might be worth getting it checked out because it would be good to see you back to running, surfing and climbing before too long. 

And one last thing: never go a day without taking probiotics, but make sure that you take them two hours apart from your antibiotics............................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Thank you for helping Tom,

That's so cool about him making his own sauerkraut. The only probiotic I have been taking is drinking kombucha. I mentioned to Sarah that I would go pick up NACi, fish oil pills, B12 and Vitamin C.

I think I'm gonna go the azithromycin, doxycycline route. Since I have already been taking azithromycin for 5 weeks. I'm less intimidated by this CAPi.

Cheers

Ivan

Best of luck with your CAPi protocol - and my very best wishes for as smooth, complete and fast a recovery as modern medicine (CAP) will provide!

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom C

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAPi in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

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