Cpnhelp.org

I forgot to mention that I still have the over the counter test.  I haven't sent it in yet, though I collected the sample weeks ago.  It's a saliva test and has been in my freezer.  Testosterone is included in the test cost and additional hormones are $29 each.

Should I go ahead and send that in?  What do you think?

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

FarandWide, it looks like your FT4 is low, as is your AM cortisol... I don't have a thyroid so don't even take the TSH any more but it appears you may be a bit hypothryoid.   FT3 is also more helpful drawn as it is the indicator the how much circulating thyroid hormone you have going on.  Your adrenals may also have been affected or appearing to possibly be stressed.

Cortisol blood draws are usually to be done BEFORE 9AM.  I, personally, believe the saliva (4 vials of spit) provide a more accurate indicator of what's going on.... I was never treated on my blood test results (allopathic) but the saliva I was very low and treated with supplementsⁱ (holistically) before I became ill with CPNⁱ. 

My input, FWIWⁱ... I'm sure others will input.  

JeanneRoz

___________________________________________________________

JeanneRoz ~ DXⁱ'd w/ CPNⁱ 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSⁱ/FM; also: HHV6, EBVⁱ, IBSⁱ-C, 100 Doxyⁱ:BIDⁱ;250 AzithM/W/F; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, Armour Thyroid ERFA Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 units, Suppl<

Jeanne       

Since the blood sample was take at 5 pm, it isn't an am cortisol but a pm one.

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

I would go for it. I agree that the important testing missing here is Free T3 vs Reverse T3. Find someone who can do this test and interpret it accurately--not an easy task. Even if you have normal T4, if your liver is not converting it to Free T3 in sufficient amounts, you can have very serious fatigue. Supplementation with compounded T3 can turn on your body like flipping a light switch--immuneⁱ function included.

This is what happened to me.

Raven

___________________________________________________________
Feeling 95% well-going for 100. Still testing + for Cpnⁱ. CAPⁱ since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.for MSⁱ and/or CFSⁱ. Also EBVⁱ and HHV6. Doxyⁱ, Azith, Tiniⁱ pulses. NACⁱ, Iodoral, T3, BHRT, MethyB12 injections, Nitro patch, LDNⁱ, FIRsauna, methylation supps

Norman      

I have a test kit for hormone testing I bought myself.  I collecting the sample, saliva, a few weeks ago and have had it sitting in my freezer, waiting to get this test back first since it was free whereas the saliva test isn't.

I think I'll go ahead and get that test sent in so that I can get a comparison of the two.  My impression of the blood test is that the levels were a little on the low side, consistently, despite the fact the fell in the reference range.  So this begs the question of how low do they have to be before corrective action is taken?

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

Hi Raven  

Hey, thanks for the feedback.  What lab would you recommend?

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

I agree with Raven about FT3 and RT3. Those are the 2 numbers Dr Powell uses to diagnose "Human dormancy syndrome" in cpnⁱ-infected people.

A single blood measure of cortisol is pretty meaningless. Get a 24-hour saliva sample (with 4 measurements). That will give you a complete picture of your daily cortisol output.

Some people like to measure testosterone earlier in the day than 5pm, since like cortisol it has a daily rhythm (though not as pronounced). Your total T (554) is good. But your free T is abysmal. Having said that I know of at least one good hormonal doc who says that lab measurements of free T are pretty meaningless. What you really need to know is either of:

1. SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), or

2. Bioavailable T.

> Why is it I'm increasingly reliant on caffeine to keep me going?

Possibly early signs of (mild) adrenal fatigue? Best to get 24-hour saliva cortisol.

___________________________________________________________
Hunter: Don't think - experiment

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

I'm from the UK so not the best person to ask about US labs. Hopefully someone else will answer, but I've heard people mentioning:

Canary club saliva cortisol test

The T3/RT3 can be gotten from the Stop the thyroid madness website:

https://sttm.mymedlab.com/lab_tests?category_id=37&product_id=325

SHBG or bio T are probably not as necessary as the above two since your T looks to be ok. Both tests can be gotten from e.g. Quest labs.

___________________________________________________________
Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Hi, John, thanks for clarifying the time of the cortisol.  I still agree though that the saliva test is (IMHOⁱ) more accurate.  \

As for the Thyroid testing, another option is http://www.healthcheckusa.com.  You do not have to have a script.   Most of their labs are the ones we go to anyway for our insurance :).  I actually pay less for a test out of pocket than what they charge insurance and I end up getting billed the difference for --- (talk about double-dipping) go figure!!

Hope this helps.

JeanneRoz

___________________________________________________________

JeanneRoz ~ DXⁱ'd w/ CPNⁱ 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSⁱ/FM; also: HHV6, EBVⁱ, IBSⁱ-C, 100 Doxyⁱ:BIDⁱ;250 AzithM/W/F; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, Armour Thyroid ERFA Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 units, Suppl<

labcorp performed my reverse T3. it came back sky high and then after I switched to cytomel, T3, then it came back nondetacble. .....it does take about 10 days to get back the RT3....

___________________________________________________________

Mphs, TN. CFSⁱ, hypoT (Hashi), adrenal fatigue-almost resolved, severe hormonal inbalance-resolved, right arm neuropathy-getting better. cpnⁱ, myco, EBVⁱ, CMV. Capⁱ began in 6/07. NACⁱ 3000mg, minoⁱ 100mg bidⁱ, biaxin 500mg bidⁱ. cytomel, tiniⁱ pulses

Hi Sharon          

If it was "sky high", wouldn't that mean you had more then you should have and thereby have hyperthyroidism?  Too much T3 isn't a good thing of course.  I have what seems to be the reverse of that, I don't have enough from what I can tell.  Of course, a test is the only way to tell.  I'll find out what the LabCorp test costs and compare it to what Garcia posted.  I'm guessing Quest does the test also so I may look into their test as well.

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

  I apologize that the  purpose of my response was unclear. I was making a comment on the lab that I used and not a comment about your lab work/results.  I gave a brief story b/c I thought the lab work coincided with what was going on within me and therefore, felt that Lab Corp was very reliable lab. 

 but to clarify, my reverse T3 was sky high, not my T3..  from my understanding,  alot of us with chronic infectionsⁱ,  instead of our bodies converting T4 to T3,  our bodies convert T4 to RT3. The RT3 'shuts the cell off' from absorbing the thyroid hormones. . For me, i had all of this thyroid medicine floating around in my system, and my labs showed me to be extremely hyper. however, I was extremely hypo (based upon symptoms) b/c my cells were not absorbing thyroid hormones due to RT3..  In theory and from my understanding,  when you have positive RT3, you stop taking any thyroid med that has T4 b/c the T4 is the only that converts into RT3.  and start taking a T3, like Cytomel.

 but your situation is different in that you dont take thyroid meds but it is still my understanding that your body can still convert T4 into RT3.  

I looked at labcorp cost from a bill dated 1/13/09.  free T 3 was $235.00, reverse T3 $225.00, 

T4 was 119.00 , TSH was 104.00. drawing fee of $24.00.. these prices were before insurance discount.

___________________________________________________________

Mphs, TN. CFSⁱ, hypoT (Hashi), adrenal fatigue-almost resolved, severe hormonal inbalance-resolved, right arm neuropathy-getting better. cpnⁱ, myco, EBVⁱ, CMV. Capⁱ began in 6/07. NACⁱ 3000mg, minoⁱ 100mg bidⁱ, biaxin 500mg bidⁱ. cytomel, tiniⁱ pulses

Okay, how do I approach my doctor on this?  He ultimately has to prescribe the medicine to help me out with this, unless I want to go solo and order online.  I have no clue what the drug to order is.  So, what should I say to my doctor?

What I'm inclined to say is this...

--------------------------------------------------------- 

The test for Thyroid Stimulating Hormone  - 1.73 (reference range 0.45 - 4.50)  UIU/ML falls in the reference range but is low.  The levels for Free T4 - 0.7 (reference range 0.6 - 1.6) NG/DL definitely falls low in the reference range but given that T4 is converted to T3 and assists in energy production, do you not think that this is low.  Further, the test did not check the T3 and reverse T3 levels which would tell us if there's a problem with adrenal fatigue.

The levels of Testosterone Free, Serum - 9.04 (reference range 8.70 - 54.70) PG/ML but again is on the low side as is Testosterone % Free - 0.16 % and DHEA Sulfate - 215 (reference range 95 - 530) UG/DL.  Given the consistent low results and the missing T3 an rT3 levels, does this not demostrate what I was asking you to get the test for?

Lastly, the test was taken at 5 PM and didn't check Cortisol levels throughout the day.  It's well known that levels go up and down throughout the day.  We've talked about the Sine wave I seem to experience every day and 5 PM is approaching the crest of it towards the dinner hour.

--------------------------------------------------------- 

So what do you think?  Should I say more, less?  I appreciate your suggestions on the subject.  Many thanks!

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

___________________________________________________________

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

John, does this interest you?  I posted this link to a forum topic - On the Back Porch today as well.

http://www.arupconsult.com/index.html

http://www.arupconsult.com/Algorithms/AdrenalInsufficiency.pdf

http://www.arupconsult.com/Algorithms/ThyroidDisorders.pdf

___________________________________________________________

6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSⁱ-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxinⁱ

3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU

2-09Intermit-CAPDoxiRoxiClari,Tiniⁱ, 2-09LDN-CFS

1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin

Duplicate post... deleted

___________________________________________________________

JeanneRoz ~ DXⁱ'd w/ CPNⁱ 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSⁱ/FM; also: HHV6, EBVⁱ, IBSⁱ-C, 100 Doxyⁱ:BIDⁱ;250 AzithM/W/F; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, Armour Thyroid ERFA Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 units, Suppl<

The test  algorithms are interesting but definitely from a straight allopathic viewpoint.  The adrenal test is blood cortisol which leaves no room for subclinical or beginning stages of adrenal failure and the thyroid references only refer to T4 and TSH....does not include FT3 (which is what we really need to be concerned about.)  

Why Conventional Medicine Misses Adrenal issues Despite sub-clinical adrenia with its various stages was recognized as a distinct clinical syndrome since the turn of the 20th century, most doctors are unfamiliar with this condition for the simple reason that it is difficult to diagnose effectively by traditional blood test. Normal blood tests are designed to detect severe absolute deficiency of adrenal hormones known as Addison's disease. This disease afflicts only 4 out of 100,000 and is often the result of auto-immunei disease or infectious origin. Blood tests are also useful to detect extreme excessive levels of adrenal hormones in a condition known as Cushing's disease. Adrenal hormones are low in the case of Adrenal fatigue, but still within the "normal" range and not low enough to warrant the diagnosis of Addison's disease by regular blood tests. In fact, your adrenal hormones can be half of the optimum level and still be labeled "normal";. Such "normal" level of adrenal hormones does not mean that the patient is free from adrenal fatigue. Conventional doctors are not taught the significance of sub-clinical adrenal fatigue. They are misguided by blood tests which are not sensitive enough to detect sub-clinical adrenia. As a results, patients tested for adrenal functions are told they are "normal" but in reality, their adrenal glands are performing sub-optimally, with clear signs and symptoms as the body cries out for help and attention. Adrenal fatigue afflicts more people than Addison's disease. It is not recognized and has become an epidemic of massive proportion. To truly diagnose adrenal fatigue, more sensitive laboratory testing and meticulous detail to a complete history is required. This input is from Dr. Lam... his credentials are: Michael Lam, MD, MPH, ABAAM is a specialist in Nutritional and Anti-Aging Medicine. His clinical focus is on advance adrenal fatigue and natural hormonal balancing. Dr. Lam received his Bachelor of Science degree from Oregon State University and his Doctor of Medicine degree from Loma Linda University School of Medicine, California. He also holds a Master’s degree in Public Health. He is Board Certified by the American Board of Anti-aging Medicine and has served as board examiner for the American Board of Ant-aging Medicine. Dr. Lam is a pioneer in using non-toxic natural compounds to promote healing of many age related degenerative diseasesi, using optimum blends of nutritional supplementation that manipulates food, vitaminsi, natural hormones, herbs, enzymes, and minerals into specific protocolsi to rejuvenate cellular function. His work on Ovarian-Adrenal-Thyroid (OAT) Axis Imbalance is ground-breaking and authoritative. He has published well over 100 articles on natural medicine, and has authored four books

 

___________________________________________________________

JeanneRoz ~ DXⁱ'd w/ CPNⁱ 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSⁱ/FM; also: HHV6, EBVⁱ, IBSⁱ-C, 100 Doxyⁱ:BIDⁱ;250 AzithM/W/F; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, Armour Thyroid ERFA Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 units, Suppl<

___________________________________________________________

6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSⁱ-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxinⁱ

3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU

2-09Intermit-CAPDoxiRoxiClari,Tiniⁱ, 2-09LDN-CFS

1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin

Jeanneroz

Hey, where did you get the comment you posted here from?  What is the source?  I want to quote it to my doctor and without knowing where it came from makes it really pointless to do.

___________________________________________________________

best, John

RRMSⁱ/EDSSⁱ was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999 on Wheldon Protocol (nacⁱ, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazoleⁱ) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHⁱ 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08. Added

Hi, John (farandwide),

The information was culled from here.  (and you might note that chronic infection is listed as a contributor to adrenal fatigue)

Just on your FT4 you appear to be  borderline hypothyroid (he should have also tested your FT3 because that would help knowing where you are as well); and, without an adrenal saliva test, it's difficult to determine where your adrenals really are.

My husband just started natural dessicated thyroid for test results similar to yours (our doc is holistically oriented). And he is feeling so much better after only a couple of weeks... more energy, oomph, and enthusiasm (he was bordering on feeling "depressed" which is not at all like him!)

There are ways to support your adrenals naturally w/OTC products.   Isocort is what I started on before I became shutdown with CPNⁱ and needing Cortef.   Doctors also forget that adrenals need to be tested and treated before the thyroid -- it even tells you that in the thyroid drug literature (which they never read ;0)

Good luck and PM me if you want some sources for products.

JeanneRoz 

___________________________________________________________

JeanneRoz ~ DXⁱ'd w/ CPNⁱ 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSⁱ/FM; also: HHV6, EBVⁱ, IBSⁱ-C, 100 Doxyⁱ:BIDⁱ;250 AzithM/W/F; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, Armour Thyroid ERFA Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 units, Suppl<