He Hits, He Scores... Notes on an on-going experiment

Blog 5/08
Warning: this is a lengthy one as it's been a while.

It’s been quite a while since I posted a blog. I’ve been experimenting with some things and don’t like to report too much until I have a clear trend going, and that takes months. Now that the experimental protocol is public I can give my own report. I’m also the “old man” of the site, and if newbies see that I’m doing things differently than the “standard” CAP’s it tends to confuse. One of the side costs of our success in bringing more people to the site is that it’s more problematic for me to “think out loud” about my own treatment like I used to here. My musings and speculations tend to be followed with more attention than perhaps they deserve,  and all sorts of questions or concerns pop up for people.

I’ve been following an emerging protocol Dr. Stratton has been developing with a friend of his who is a patient-expert on Cpni. The intention of this has been to find ways to alleviate some of the onerous effects of Cpn treatment so that it is easier on people, and to make the treatment process less lengthy. A number of people previously unable to tolerate CAP treatment, older folks especially with GFA syndrome (Generally Falling Aparti from Cpn related diseasesi) have been able to tolerate treatment and benefit from it in a number of months.

(Some of the explanation below has been repeated in the Handbook post on the experimental protocol)
Emerging research has been suggesting that Cryptic Cpn is not benign even if it is not replicating. Cryptic Cpn is essentially a stressed form of Cpn, and stress causes it to generate of Heat Shock Protein (HSP60), which is many times more inflammatory than LPSi endotoxini. LPS endotoxin is the one that causes the fever and chills and is released mostly when RB’s are killed and lyse, or when EB’s are killed. The inflammationi of plaques in cardiovascular disease has been associated specifically with Cpn HSP60 (this is a blog, so I’m not going to try to reference all this stuff here, you can look it up in Pubmed) and with the persistent (cryptic) form of Cpn. This is probably why those “big” studies of 6 months of azithromycin showed not lowering of risk of heart disease… it’s not caused by the replicating form of Cpn and the idiots never asked a microbiologist about what might kill cryptic Cpn!

Dr. Stratton has been thinking that a lot of the reactions people have to antibioticsi in treating Cpn is not all the LPS endotoxin release or porphyrins, but could in large part be from the highly inflammatory effect of forcing Cpn into Cryptic formi, causing it to generate a big wave of HSP60, and then a lower but chronic amount until it’s killed by the flagyl. He speculates that some of the reports of IV treatment causing little or no reaction is because it floods the system with so much antibiotic so quickly that the Cpn is killed before it starts to be stressed and generate HSP60 as part of it’s survival strategy. Paul Griffith, a non-medical friend researching this whole area, found that supplementing pyruvate might do the trick.

Basically, this approach uses 6grams of calcium pyruvate one hour before taking the antibiotics, and an additional 6 grams if needed later for reactions when the antibiotics exert their effect. In theory the first dose of pyruvate encourages the cryptic/persistent form of Cpn to convert back into RB (replicating) form by supplying it with a ready source for generating cellular energy. In RB form it is:
a) Susceptible to the regular antibiotics and,
b) Can be killed when it is not in “stress” so it is not stimulated into producing and releasing so much the highly inflammatory HSP60.

In essence, you are feeding it until it is comfy and sprawling in it’s chair at the dining table, and then whacking it upside the head!

In theory this approach should limit turning Cpn into cryptic form by the treatment and make it more directly susceptible to the protein synthase inhibitors (like doxyi and azith).

In theory, it should also winnow down the cryptic load one has acquired, along with it’s inflammatory affects, without needing to kill it directly with flagyl.

Also in theory, the second dose of pyruvate for reactions to the antibiotics should supply the fundamental cellular energy needed to help lower the generation of porphyrins.

Back to my blog…
So for the past three months I’ve been experimenting with this using different antibiotic agents, without and pulses. I finally did a tinii pulse last week to see whether I had indeed reduced the cryptic load—based on how much reaction I would have to the pulse. My personal speculation is that, if I’ve been building up lots of cryptic load by going so long without a pulse I’d have a strong reaction. If this new approach was itself winnowing down my cryptic load, I would have a relatively mild reaction.

Well, it’s only one pulse, but it was the easiest pulse I’ve ever had, and no noticeable post-pulse reaction. So it does seem that this new approach is useful. More importantly to me personally is that I’ve improved noticeably in my energy and cognition after these three months. I had been at a glacially slow improvement phase for a while, so this is really significant for me.

Month One- I first did a month of Biaxin (clairithromycin) twice a day in combination with about 4 grams of  pyruvate, without any doxycycline. This combination was not easier on me. In fact I had stronger die-off reactions from this than I’d had in a long time. This was surprising, as I don’t have any significant reactions to the regular antibiotics, only to pulses. It suggested that I was indeed getting previously untouched Cpn to be vulnerable to the antibiotics. In fact, the reactions I was having were more like old pulses used to be: I was getting aches in joints, knees, trapezius muscle, sacroiliac joint, etc. which I only have gotten during pulses.

I had a couple weeks of flare up like this on the Biaxin/pyruvate combo. The second dose of pyruvate didn’t help a lot to counter these reactions, but I was only doing 4 grams for these post-antibiotic dose reactions and was told later by Dr. Stratton that this was not sufficient.

Month Two- The next month I did roxithromycin and Bactrim DS. I had some roxy left from a past experiment, and wanted to try the Bactrim to see if it helped with urinary symptoms. I had less reactions than on the Biaxin. After about two weeks I actually felt mentally clearer and more energy than I had in a long time! I was still only doing about 4 grams of the pyruvate, but love that roxy/bactrim!

Month Three- I ran out of the roxy after a month, and switch back to azithromycin briefly, 250mg daily preceeded by the pyruvate. I got an initial kick, again, but it settled down shortly. About this time I started to use 6grams pyruvate instead of 4. This eliminated most reactions and seemed to improve my energy and mood. Shortly, I got more roxy and switched back to it but also added doxy back as I ran out of Bactrim. I’d say during this month I was functioning well although at about the same level end of the month as at the beginning of the month.

He Hits, He Scores, He Pulses… I finally did my usual pulse of 500mg tini twice a day for five days. I had some reaction to the first dose of 1000mg. I usually double the first dose to 1000mg to bring my blood levels up quicker. These reactions were mostly alleviated by additional pyruvate. The rest of the pulse was uneventful: some short periods of irritability and aches that were easily countered by some pyruvate  and a dose of ibuprophen. Post pulse now a week, no post pulse reactions to speak of.

I have to say that it does appear that this approach is clearing some stubborn areas of Cpn and also contributing to more energy, cognitive clarity and less inflammation.

Almost forgot: the unforgettable rifampin… Ah yes. Somewhere in the middle of all this I tried the pyruvate and rifampin. SLAMMED! I did 150mg rifampin twice a day and could only manage 4 days. Even lots of pyruvate didn’t counter my reactions to this one! So there is still some way to go here for me, as the “acid test” of rifampin is not approachable.

In Conclusion- Some of you who have noted how bloody long I’ve been on this protocol may be wondering if it’s really worth it. I’m the poster child (maybe along with Willow?) for starting out with an incredibly high bacterial loadi and pervasive infection. Every step-up of the protocol, every addition of a stronger agent, cost me in miserable reactions. But I told a friend the other day that I can look back at the last three birthdays and truly say that I have felt better than the last one each time. Not bad for reaching my 55th this weekend! Worth it? You bet. I am living more life than I was able to last year, and so much more than when I started. My patient story spoke of the narrowing tunnel of illness when I started the CAP.  I’m out of the tunnel, in the sunshine and on level ground. That's good!

___________________________________________________________

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxii: 25yrs CFSii & FMSii. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDii, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 12mg Iodoral

Jim, Thanks so much for

Jim, Thanks so much for sharing these links. Locally I have been paying $16.19 for 90 tablets of the NOW brand Pyruvate 1000 mg.

I want to check out their prices on our other supplementsi too. Louise

CFSi/ME.CPnPositive.BbPositive.WheldonCAPbegan6/24/07. NowNAC,Doxyi, Roxi, Full TiniPulses. Cholestyramine at BedtimeforPhorphoria&liposacarideEndotoxinDie-OffExperiences.

___________________________________________________________

6-07WheldonCAP CFS20+yr

(11-29-07 started Cholestyramine HS PRNi x 7d for porphyrin+endotoxinsi removal)

Check out Louise's Blog at; http://www.cpnhelp.org/blog/louise for the details of my treatment adventure!

thanks too.  we pay a

thanks too.  we pay a fortune for vits and supplementsi in the UK (£21 i.e. $40 dollars for the same here calcium pyruvate; and Emergen Vitamin C about £15 i.e. $30 dollars, even on-line!). of course we have to pay postage and customs taxes on top, but still probably worth it!

M.E./CFSi 20 years, intermittent.  Wheldon Protocol - Started NACi and supplementsi Sept 2007. Doxyi and Roxy full dose by Dec '07.  First Flagyli pulse January 2008.

___________________________________________________________
M.E./CFSi 20 years, intermittent.  Wheldon Protocol - Started NACi and supplementsi Sept 2007. Doxyi and Roxy full dose by Dec '07.  First Flagyli pulse January 2008.  Changed to Tinii in December 2008.  Stopped CAPi in February 2009 at pulse 16.

It is still definately worth

It is still definately worth it, no probably about it...

Happy Birthday Jim,

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse. Zoo keeper for Ella, RRMSi, At worse EDSSi 9, 3 months later 7 now 5.5 Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

___________________________________________________________

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Happy birthday Jim, hero and

Happy birthday Jim, hero and poster child of cpnhelp, thank you for all the good work you do, wishing you many more trail-blazing years to come.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpn and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

___________________________________________________________
Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Happy birthday, and may

Happy birthday, and may each coming birthday be happier and happier. Combined Antibiotic Protocol minocycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei for muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi, sinus, disphonia, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, thyroid, TMJ.

___________________________________________________________
minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazolei 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, Lauricidin: muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (all well now)

Jim - Happy Birthday !  Wow

Jim - Happy Birthday !  Wow - What a life ! 

Thanks for all that you do here to help so many including me and my husband.  You are a gentleman, a scholar and a true gem of a human being ! 

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.   Roxyi, Diflucan round three 4-4, Rifampin, Bactrim DS, Mepron 4-6, Prednisone, Novantrone, Doxyi, Azithromycin, Flagyli, Minoi

___________________________________________________________

Daisy - Husband on CAPi 5/07.  "When Going Thru Hell, Just Keep Going", Winston Churchill

Jim,  Happy Birthday,

Jim,  Happy Birthday, Yoda!  You've done a terrific job explaining the pyruvate-aided approach to the protocol.  Once again, thanks for testing the waters, jumping in, and dragging in the crowd. 

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

___________________________________________________________

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMSi).  CAPi since August 06, Cpni, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBVi, CMV & other herpes family viral infectionsi, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity. 

 Again, thanks to all for

 Again, thanks to all for your well wishes and your appreciations. We have such a great community of folks here, and I'm exceedigly grateful for all of you and what we have done together. 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Protocol: 200mg Doxyi, 300mg Roxithromycin, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D1000 units, Iodoral 50mg, T4 & T3

___________________________________________________________

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 12mg Iodoral

Hi Jim ! You wrote that you

Hi Jim ! You wrote that you switched from Biaxin to roxyi to azith. i am thinking to switch back from biaxin to azith - because of my urticaria/rash. And I think azith is less potent than biaxin. What about resistance when switching in the macrolide group?

something to worry about?

___________________________________________________________
Male 36 years (Germany),CFIDSi, IBSi, Enterovirus, Cpni and Bartonella positive. Started Capi on 02/19/08, Currently NACi 2400Restarted on 20/01/09, Building up to Rifampicin 600,Azi.500 p.d.,Tinii,Pulsed  Oral Vancomycin for c.diff

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.