Just two more days of the current pulse.
Oh, Lord, please help me hang in there ... just two more days!
I think this is one of my worst yet. The first couple days spent fatigue, irritability, and a screaming headache that would not respond to pain killers such as Advil.
The last couple days the headache subsided but now I'm suffering from digestive issues, brain fog, poor sleep, and borderline depression.
Can I hang in 2 more days? Or should I just cut it short? (This will be Day 6) My doc really discourages me from cutting pulses short or going more than a month between pulses but .... ugh! I don't know how much longer I can endure this. Pulses just seem to get worse and worse every time.
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GFAi - asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxii 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyii, tiniii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-e
Hi.Why force yourself
Hi.
Why force yourself needlessly? I see that you are using Benicar, and that makes you a candidate for being on a modified Marshall protocol. There is a possibility that it potentiates the effects of the abxi, so you should be very careful with that. At least this is what the people on the MPi keep telling. Try using the abxi without it the next time, and see what happens. Especially it is warned that you should be very careful with azithromycin if you use Benicar at the same time, because Azi stays in your body a very long time. But first you must of course recover from your current pulse.
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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsi.
Have you considered the
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6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSi-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxini
3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU
2-09Intermit-CAPDoxi
RoxiClari,Tinii, 2-09LDN-CFS1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin
I like my Wheldon Protocol
I like my Wheldon Protocol pulses that are five days. I could have never lasted more than five days. I HATE taking flagyli. It tastes like butt and I can feel it in my stomach. I always celebrate when the last dose is done. My stomach has been wishy washy since birth. My mother said I threw up everything except arrowroot biscuits soaked in milk. I couldn't even eat baby cereal or bananas. I have the weakest tummy at times.
Do you have to do such long pulses?
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Lived with MSi since 1991. Completed 16 months of full CAPi plus supplementsi. Currently in full remission. Not on any antiobiotics anymore but taking all supplementsi incl NACi.
I have to take the Benicar
I have to take the Benicar because the azi makes my blood pressure go up for some reason. If I stop the Benicar I'll have to stop the azi.
Regarding full 7 day pulses, I think my doc is of the rip-the-bandage-off-quickly type and wants to be aggressive the treatment so it doesn't go on for years and years. Maybe I'll ask aout tinidazole next appointment. Is it any safer with alcohol? Another thing I hate about Flagyli is having to be paranoid about alcohol in food, medicines, or even mouthwash.
Today's my last day on this pulse. Yesterday was absolutely my limit, I felt so dreadful. I was going to skip today's dose but oddly felt 10 times better this morning so decided to finish it off. Has the worst really passed even though it's still in my system? Or am I just so happy it's the last day that my improvement is all psychological?
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eAs far as I know, the
As far as I know, the half-life ot metronidazolei is (roughly) 8 hours: if so, within a day your body should have got rid of it.
Probably what you are experiencing it's due to bacterial die-off (and that may last much longer than the pulse itself).
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< SPMSi - EDSSi 7 > < NACi 600mg X 2, Doxyi 100 mg X 2, Azith 250 mg MWF, Flagyli pulses, green tea, curcumin, flavonoids + all the supplementsi listed on Wheldon's Protocol (and possibly more) >
Sunny, I'm sure you don't
Sunny, I'm sure you don't need to be that paranoid about alcohol and flagyli! The amount in a mouthwash is negligible and alcohol in cooked food is completely safe since all the volatile will have evaporated in the cooking. I can't say whether tinidazole is safer with alcohol and I can't find an old leaflet saying about it. However some people can safely take both flagyl or tini with a small amount of alcohol. David could so although I started by not drinking any alcohol at all, I ended up by drinking a small glass sometimes because it really had no effect on me apart from slightly masking the taste. Tinidazole tastes better!...............Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
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"I have to take the Benicar
"I have to take the Benicar because the azi makes my blood pressure go up for some reason. If I stop the Benicar I'll have to stop the azi."
Benicar isn't very good at lowering blood pressure anyway, perhaps 15 mm Hg on the average. Thinking that lowering blood pressure will help is old-fashioned thinking anyways, I hope your doc isn't stuck in this old-fashioned thinking. It's not this simple at least, and I'm not aware of any studies which clearly show that lowering blood pressure would help most people. Yet hypertension drugs are sold a lot for this purpose.
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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsi.
"Benicar isn't very good at
"Benicar isn't very good at lowering blood pressure anyway, perhaps 15 mm Hg on the average. Thinking that lowering blood pressure will help is old-fashioned thinking anyways, I hope your doc isn't stuck in this old-fashioned thinking. It's not this simple at least, and I'm not aware of any studies which clearly show that lowering blood pressure would help most people. Yet hypertensioni drugs are sold a lot for this purpose."
You're not sure lowering blood pressure will help with what exactly? And why is it "old-fashioned"?
My blood pressure was fine before I started taking azi. It went up literally overnight when I first started taking azi. The Benicar was only to combat this because the thinking was the azi was causing an inflammatory response in the blood vessels from the die-off, and Benicar targets that, as opposed to bp medicines that target things like excess fluid retention. We expect and hope I'll be able to quit the Benicar when I quit the azi, or maybe even before that as the die-off reactions slowly wind down.
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eHave you considered using a
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6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSi-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxini
3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU
2-09Intermit-CAPDoxi
RoxiClari,Tinii, 2-09LDN-CFS1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin
I was recently on the last
I was recently on the last day of an intermittent pulse. I had a particularly good day and decided to not even thinking about the fact I was taking Flagyli decided to reward myself with a glass of my favorite Islay Scotch. I was half-way through with the glass when it hit me that I was still taking Flagyl. A few seconds later it hit me that if I had not started having the antabuse reaction to it by now, I probably never would. And I didn't.
I'm just glad I didn't discover earlier that I can walk, chew gum, drink and take Flagyl all at the same time as it might have been too tempting and I would have probably tripped, fallen down, aspirated the Scotch and strangled on the gum.
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CAPi for M.S. 8/2007 - 3/2009. Twentieth pulse metronidazolei + INHi completed 3/12/2009. Intermittent treatment thereafter until 8/7/2009.
wow, no reaction, thats
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MSi TMJ trigeminal neuralgia
cfsineutropeniacystitisnephritisoptc-neuritissinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI'sIt is not bizzare, it is
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On Wheldon protocol since 02/2006, added rifa 10/09 for CFSi and many problems 30 years (cpni and
mycoplasma)Hello Lala! I did spend
Hello Lala! I did spend about six months thinking I might have problems, so never having taken anything very much in the antibiotic line before, I didn't risk it for that time. I'm still wary about chewing gum and walking and talking on my phone at the same time though and I'm not even taking the stuff anymore...............Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
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Not bizarre; I've taken a
Not bizarre; I've taken a drink or two with flagyli on many occasions. The first time was inadvertent, as was the second. I simply forgot I was on a pulse.
Now, if I want a drink while on a pulse, I have it. Never even had a twinge, much less the projectile vomiting one pharmacist insisted 'always' happens.
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The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
Hello Sarah, you are very
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On Wheldon protocol since 02/2006, added rifa 10/09 for CFSi and many problems 30 years (cpni and
mycoplasma)Well, that's it for me. No
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eYes, it s possible but it
Yes, it s possible but it will take a hell of a lot longer. Theoretically, anything intracellulari and held in stasis will gradually be dumped as your own body cells are replaced. How about tinidazole, though?..............Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow
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How slightly elevated? It
How slightly elevated? It is almost expected that up to 3x elevated results from many people as a result of abxi tx from my understanding, reading and explanations given by healthcare providers.
I slowed down on pulses to see if it would make any difference taking lengthy breaks between pulses and it made no difference whatsoever. The only way that I got remarkable reversal was to stop all three of the agents for a period of time. I expect my levels from my 4 month break mid week. Many people don't test and don't know. And if there is a slight elevation then it is a great way for a provider to encourage someone to go off of a therapy that they may not truely be behind. In my humble opinion.
I sat with moderately elevated levels for 16 months on CAP and but only with a complete abxi break these levels have decreased. I tried several stategies none of them had the effect of deminishing the enzymes.
I am as mentioned before, with Sarah on suggesting tinii. I take tinidazole exclusively because I saw that DW approved it for Sarah and it is offered on the list of acceptable nidazole class bacterioactive substances. Jim tolerated flagyli poorly as well and uses tinidazole for the most part as I understand.
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6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSi-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxini
3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU
2-09Intermit-CAPDoxi
RoxiClari,Tinii, 2-09LDN-CFS1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin
Kim's pulse kit
Kim's pulse kit is:
Nori
Ibuprofen
Glucose
Tums
Charcoal at night
The odd thing in her last pulse was we swapped out a chlorella for a serrapeptase and while likely coincidental, she really felt much better throughout the pulse.
Good Luck, Ken
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In pursuit of ABX
Don't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be
"How slightly elevated? It
"How slightly elevated? It is almost expected that up to 3x elevated results..."
The ALT was 42 (6-40 U/L). You saying that is common and not much to be concerned about?
In the previous test it was in the low 30s. Several months back it had been in the upper teens, then 20, so there seems to be a steady upward trend in the last 6 months or so.
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eDr. Stratton recommended
Dr. Stratton recommended pepto bismal tablets rather than an antacid for my indigestion..told me to take three before each meal. I only took them before dinner or large meals and it helped enormously. I bought the less expensive, generic brands.
As far as the Ibuprofen - at times, I lived on that stuff.
Diana
Sunni, My Highest AST was
Sunni, My Highest AST was 156 in Jan. 2008, I began my abxi break Feb.2009 and the AST was 104. I have had a total of 12 draws. Jut being more dehydrated at the time of draw can vary the results and the time of day or being fasting without any fluids or fasting with clear fluids only. I just had a draw this past Friday, it has been 4 month now on abxi break. Last month the AST was down to 62 (range 0 - 40) I will be starting a trial of intermittent sometime this month.
Do some research for yourself. I have been well screen for other causes and they are negative. My initial AST prior to abx was 61, I may be at my variation of normal. All other comprehensive chemisry tests are WNL within normal limits. My BUN and Creatinine are well within range showing good general function despite the enzyme elevations.
Sarah decided not to have these followed I think she said. Taking the whole picture of your situation should be part of your decision. If I had your trend I would be personally be glad!
Seems we have to look into so much but if we don't we can get off the path very easily IMHOi.
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6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSi-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxini
3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU
2-09Intermit-CAPDoxi
RoxiClari,Tinii, 2-09LDN-CFS1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin
I think that if you decide
I think that if you decide to continue the flagyli pulses, you must make sure that you stop the first day you feel poorly on it. There are people who can take only one flagyl and that is the pulse. Do not force yourself to continue 3 days or five days once you begin to feel bad on it. This is counterproductive because it makes you feel too darn bad and causes a set back! Stay slow and steady ~ one day you will see you can do an extra flagyl, but until then don't force anything.
It's important not to stop ALL meds for a period of time, because the continual presence of abxi is neccesary to keep up a constant fight to kill at least some bugs in some of their stages.
Diana
Diana, Did I read somewhere
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6-07WheldonCAP CPnBb FMSi-CFS20+yr, 11-07Cholestyramine HSPRNx7d-porphyrin+endotoxini
3-08Iodoral, 5-08BHRT, 8-08Same+Bs, 10-08D-10,000IU
2-09Intermit-CAPDoxi
RoxiClari,Tinii, 2-09LDN-CFS1-10-IT+Ursodiol300Bid+Lauricidin
Louise, you're right. I just
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eAbsolutely right, Diana. I
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GFAi -
asthmai, sinusitis/rhinitis, tendonitis, low back pain, hypothyroid. Started abxi 1/9/08. Azi 250mg/day, doxyi, tinii, 5,000iu vitD, rhodiola, SAM-eSummivara, my first year on
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minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazolei 2007-2009, infrared sauna, chelation for lead poisoning, ursodiol, nitroglycerine patches for muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi, sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, thyroid, TMJ.
Louise - I am having so much
Louise - I am having so much trouble getting to this site and staying here to answer questions..I keep losing it! But since I seem to be on now, I will answer this question.
Yes, Louise, you did read "somewhere" that I never took Flagyli or tinii. I had a severe allergic reaction to flagyl and at the time I took the Stratton protocol, '98-2004 flagyl was not used universally..the day I tried it, somewhere in my fourth year of the protocol, I had the reaction and Dr. S said not to use it again based on my allergic reaction.
Actually here is the reason I tried flagyl...two girls I knew, who were also taking the same protocol and began about a 1-2 years before me, LOVED what flagyl did for them - they said it gave them energy and got rid of their chronic yeast infectionsi. Upon further study, I found that it must have been fungal or bacterial infections they were dealing with, because flagyl is not used for yeast. But anyway...I got a few tablets and decided to try the flagyl. I only took 1/4 of a 100mg tablet. Although I never had candida, but wanted the "energy" the girls talked about. within 30-45 minutes i was covered with ives and an itchy rash all over my body and my face had swelled up twice its size and my eyes had swelled shut. I got up and took Benedryl and it subsided within about 8 or more hours.
Back then, nobody knew from tini! So - I stumbled on to the flagyl on my own, and never knew it could do anything but give great energy and get rid of suppsed yeast infections! I was very surprised to see how poorly people felt using it. I will try to get myself a signature so that people can know what I did and when.
Diana
My flagyli experience - A
My flagyli experience - A couple more things that told me I had a bonafide allergy to Flagyl...my tongue swelled up and I had some trouble breathing. So, this really scared me and then I thought of Benedryl and sure enough, it helped. I took it at bedtime, so it was about 11:30 PM when the reaction began.
The weird thing is that I felt almost euphoric when it took affect and it made me sad that I had an allergic reaction and wouldn't be able to take it again.
Diana
"You're not sure lowering
"You're not sure lowering blood pressure will help with what exactly? And why is it "old-fashioned"?
BP medication is generally used on the simple assumption, that lowering blood pressure simply helps.
"My blood pressure was fine before I started taking azi. It went up literally overnight when I first started taking azi. The Benicar was only to combat this because the thinking was the azi was causing an inflammatory response in the blood vessels from the die-off, and Benicar targets that, as opposed to bp medicines that target things like excess fluid retention. We expect and hope I'll be able to quit the Benicar when I quit the azi, or maybe even before that as the die-off reactions slowly wind down."
This shows more advanced thinking, so it seems like your doc knows what he/she is doing. I'm not a doctor however, so you shouldn't take any medical advice from me of course :). I'm battling on many fronts, so haven't had time to look through much research about BP medication. But it is enough to mention a research where diuretics and ACE inhibitors were used and both lowered the BP the same amount on the test subjects, the ACE inhibitors still prevented more cardiovascular deaths, which clearly demonstrates that lowering BP in itself can't be the most important factor.
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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsi.