Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate (ESR)

For some reason, the first thing I saw on the home page of this site is just sinking in. Look at the picture of the parasite-ridden red blood cells on the home page.

No wonder CFSi sometimes shows a low ESR! And the achiness, too, could be due in part to the mechanical difficulty of squeezing those misshapen, oversized RBC's through a capillary.

 Low ESR doesn't exist in the U.S. standard medical training -- it's only associated with inflamatory conditions, and generally only considered significant if it's high (over 20.) I understand that in some of the British standard handbooks, an ESR under 5 is considered abnormal. I found, but don't have the links right now, that low ESR is associated with Giant Cell Arteritisi, another C.Pn. related condition.

Does anyone else who is under treatment for CPNi related conditions happen to know what their ESR was before they started treatment? 

Ron 

The labs usually noted that my blood samples were "extremely turbid." I wonder if that is the same thing.

I noticed how much better I am at sea level as opposed to in the mountains.

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazolei 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

 My prose has been noted the same. Or was that "extremely turgid?" I have looked at my early blood results, and I have everything under the sun except sed rate! Oh well.

On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpni in CFSi/FMSi since December 2004.

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

my sed rate has always stayed at 1-3 mark. I was in so much pain I could not believe it. My husband when he had RA his sed rate was 180.

200mg doxyi daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyli 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily

At 6 months of treatment my sed rate is 4, my doctor was concerned about it being too low and commented we may consider something to decoagnulate, and I am in Washington state. Proabaly heparin, but I'm not sure. I have RAi, my sed rate must have been done before as a highish ones are common in active disease. I'll look and see but it is low now certainly.
marie

On CAPi since Sept '05 for MSi, RAi, Asthmai, sciatica. EDSSi at start 5.5.(early cane) Now 6 (cane full time) Originally on: Doxyi 200, Azith 3x week, Tinii cont. over summer '07, Revamp of protocol in Summer '08 by Stratton due to functional loss; clarithro

 

I was amazed to come across this information and the more detailed recent studies on hypocoagulation - thanks so much to those who posted this information, I believe it's pertinent to my personal case.

I have been suffering overlapping recurrances of Rheumatic Fever from Strep A (orginally incorrectly diagnosed as HLB27 arthritis / RA) - unsure if CPni has confused / worsened the issue, especially fatigue as I tested positive to antibodies of a previous infection (don't most of us!) 3 years ago, I had already been on doxycycline as an alternative DMARD for 3 years at the time of the tests.

My higgest ESR over the past 6 years was 4! Unbelievable that not a single doctor nor specialist considered this unusual considering all my diagnoses were of an inflammatory nature.

It does make sense of an event recently at the ER when a nurse spent a good 10 mins trying to get the last ml of blood to get to a tiny 11mls from my vien!!

One time a nurse couldn't get blood out at all. Other times it would clot in the needle so that the tube could not be filled as much as it should. Unfortunantly for me, in those days my health care providers didn't know anything was wrong.

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazolei 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

 

What about not even being able to get a drop out? Could this be a similar problem or was it completely different? One ER visit I had a nurse have 4 tries at a cannular - still with no luck? The Doc finally got some out using the other arm & different spot.

Has anyone had luck with positive test results for hypocoagulation - which ones seem more specific / sensitive to this issue. I already have heart valve damage so need to be careful about taking meds which affect the pumping of my heart.

Well, between all of us, I think low ESR is definitely associated with at least the CFSi expression of C.Pn.

 I'll be interested to see if mine has changed under the CAPi.

Thanks for responding -- this is a kind of a sideline, but one that shows up sometimes in other literature on CFS.

 

Ron 

On Stratton protocol for CFS starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).

Ron

On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)

Began rifampin trial 1/14/09

Currently: on intermittent

My sed rate is 1 or 0 but my coagualtion tests normal (or even too little fibrinogen).

 

- Kate D 

Very interesting Kate D. -- I don't know anything about low SED rate and Lyme. For that matter, I don't  know anything about low Sed rate and C.Pn. I'm just suspicious, but I am getting very suspicious, now.

I just did a track on your "handle" -- very, very interesting. High cortisol and low ESR. Hmmm. Well, low ESR is associated with a very short list of conditions, most of which are more easily diagnosed by other means -- sickle cell anemia, giant cell arteritisi, idiopathic cardiomyopathyi, and chronic fatigue syndromei (myalgic encephalomyelitis">i) about cover it. Cheney and Peterson noted the CFSi/low ESR connection in the '80s. I am not aware of a connection to borrellia or cortisol, but I haven't looked. Yet.

Now, as far as the high cortisol: you might want to get a copy of Russ's book, "The Potbelly Syndrome<" . It has a thorough, concise explanation of chronic high cortisol and the bugs that love it -- and sometimes cause it. David Wheldoni reviewed it< for us. There's some discussion of this at http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=third_pulse_complete< as well.

You are a quick worker, though, finding this old thread so quickly! Welcome to the site!

Ron 

On Stratton protocol for CFS starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).

Ron

On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)

Began rifampin trial 1/14/09

Currently: on intermittent

Mine was under 5 before abxi. I have no idea what it is now.


I had cpni and ReA.

bleu 

 

Diagnoised 98 with ReA (reactive arthritis), Cpni found in eyes! after2 years of study and some trials with Cipro and Biaxin ReA passed. since then colon complications. Did lamisil and fungizone for one year recently, big improvement. Yet still colon pr

Thanks. I saw a reference to this book but ignored it, since I am scrawny, with a flat belly. However, it may be that some other factor is causing that. I definitely have the inflammationi and high cortisol. "The book gives a description of classic Cushing's disease and how raised cortisol levels shrink muscle and increase visceral fat." I am trying to decide whether I have trouble making muscle or not. It's hard to tell. Since abxi treatment I have recovered enough to exercise a bit and have gained a few pounds of muscle (I think). I am actually fairly strong but have no endurance and my muscles will shake if I am trying to hold a hard position for long. I can climb ropes and run up stairs etc but there is a lot of pain at the top. Anyway, I will keep this book in mind, since it addresses the bacteria that "like" high cortisol. (Yes, I disect health sites pretty quickly since I have had to explore many areas to try to figure out what's wrong with me!) - Kate D

  I just see in my card on  5.11.2002 -   BP 165/100, P 83/min. and FW 8. And I had  big inflammationi in my hip. Trochanteric bursitis. So it would be expected more then 20, I think.

Jan, Prague, The Czech Republic

Date Started CAPi's:
12/01/2005

On CAPs:12/01/2005 till March 2013; 20 years CFSi,IBSi, fibromyalgiai; about 10 years chronic sinusitis, laryngotracheitis, from 2002 hoarseness; from 2003 - v.s. lumbosacral meningoradiculitis, hypertension">i... 

History and tendency of my ESR

 

12.11.2002 8 mm/h

11.8.2006 3 mm/h

17.6.2007 14 mm/h

9.10.2008 20 mm/h; 48 mm/2 h

On CAPs:12/01/2005 till March 2013; 20 years CFSi,IBSi, fibromyalgiai; about 10 years chronic sinusitis, laryngotracheitis, from 2002 hoarseness; from 2003 - v.s. lumbosacral meningoradiculitis, hypertension">i... 

12.11.2002 8 mm/hour

11. 08.2006 3 mm/hour

12. 01.2007 4 mm/hour

17. 06.2007 14 mm/hour

20.11.2007 10 mm/hour; 20 mm/2 hours

9.10.2008 20 mm/hour; 48 mm/2 hours

 1.12.2008 15 mm/hour; 40 mm/2 hours

 

I found new entries in reports.

On CAPs:12/01/2005 till March 2013; 20 years CFSi,IBSi, fibromyalgiai; about 10 years chronic sinusitis, laryngotracheitis, from 2002 hoarseness; from 2003 - v.s. lumbosacral meningoradiculitis, hypertension">i... 

Very interesting, Jan -- thank you for posting that. It seems that your ESR is becoming more normal. It is not very commonly measured in the U.S., so we don't have much data to contribute.

Ron

On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)

Began rifampin trial 1/14/09

Currently: on intermittent

My sedimentation rate was 133 when I was hospitalised last February. It went down only very slowly but I don't know how much it is now. My onco/hemologist doesn't believe in it somehow.

Daniela

Cpni diagnosed, abxi since Feruary08, on full Wheldon protocol since April 08, NACi, Vit D, Vit B

 

Cpni diagnosed. Monotherapy Feb08 - April 08. Then full Wheldon protocol. Feb.09 first steps toward intermittent. NACi, Vit D 2000IU, B complex

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