Cpnhelp.org

Dr. Stratton says we should eat a high carb diet with no red meat, alcohol or other porpyria-evoking foods.I make pasta at least four times a week. Limited animal fats and lots of fresh vegetables and some fruit are good ideas.

Raven

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Feeling 95% well-going for 100. Still testing + for Cpnⁱ. CAPⁱ since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.for MSⁱ and/or CFSⁱ. Also EBVⁱ and HHV6. Amoxy,Doxyⁱ, Azith, Tiniⁱ pulses. NACⁱ, Iodoral, T3, BHRT, MethyB12 injections, Nitro patch,

I'll have to disagree on this one. A low carb diet worked at least better for me - it reduced brain fog and made me feel better. And a low carb diet is what is generally recommended for people with candida problems (which means you have Cpnⁱ too). In addition, I got more die-off from intestines from limiting sugar intake. Use animal fats and coconut oil, that's most healthy. Vegetable oils are generally unhealthy, use olive oil, if you want to use any vegetable oils.

During times, when porphyria is an acute problem, glucose (and high carbs) still helps. So it depends a bit on your situation what diet works best.

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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsⁱ.

It depends on how sick you are.

For me it is: No caffeine, low/zero sugar, low carbs, high fibre, no nuts, high in good oils (coconut, fish, olive), no omega 6's (due to excess inflammationⁱ), high in (unrefined sea-) salt.

Not by choice, but by necessity. 

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Hunter: Don't think - experiment

 So I see a disagreement on the issue of diet.

  High carbonhydrate diet is needed to decrease porphiric symptoms but this diet may increase the risk of systemic yeast infection which is already a high for people like us whose immüne systems are infected and supressed. We are on the high risk of yeast infection due to very long term antibiotic use also.

  Carbonhydrate should be a complex one also, it's not recommended to take fructose or sucrose (for what reason I don't exactly know-it may be related to increasing livers work and increasing porphiria which may be explained better by Norman or someone else).

  While talking about low carbonhydrate diet which seems to be suggested by metabolism specialists, it doesn't seem to be a suitible one in CPNⁱ infection which steals host cell energy leaving cells without energy. But this diet is adviced to many MS patients and seems to be helping some of them.

 YILMAZ.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

I have read here that a lot of sugar feeds the infection.

So maybee if eating high fat and protein insteed make some of our RBs  convert to cryptic formⁱ. By that we feel better because infection is not getting worse and not so much cellenergy is stolen by RBs.

Just thinking out loud here, maybe this have something to do with it that some feel better on this high fat diet. I feel better on it. But can not do it when have a lot of porhyria and not when I feel very sick. 

Best Wishes, Maria 

 

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Cpnⁱ since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acidⁱ.All classic cpn,porphyriaⁱ and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NACⁱ, high vitamin D3. Also treating with LIFE system and shaktimat

 Maria, I'm not sure that forcing RBs toward CBs is a very good thing. It's underdebate. CBs are very dangerous form of CPNⁱ, since CBs are under stress they thought to secrete huge amount of stress proteins;called as heat shock proteinⁱ 60; and stimulate heavy immüne reactions resulting in collateral immüne damage. In the latest protocol of CAPⁱ they started to give patients pyruvate which is the simplest form of energy for CPN. It is the output of the anaerobic metabolism of glucose known as glycolysis. One molecule of glucose breaks down into two molecules of pyruvate, which are then used to provide further energy, in crebs cycle by CPN. So as far as I can understand(ıf I'm wrong please let me know) they encourages CBs start to turn to RBs which are more sussceptible to antibioticsⁱ. (I really wonder whether RBs are more susceptible or just to opposite)

YILMAZ.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Yes I know that cryptic formⁱ is more toxic so its not good. I just wonderd if

it may explain that some people with cpnrelated illness  feel better when eating less carbs. (But if you have a lot of porphyriaⁱ you feel worse on this low carbdiet.)

But as you write having a lot of CB s is also not good.

I read that RB also goes to cryptic form when energy is low in cells. 

Maria 

 

 

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Cpnⁱ since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acidⁱ.All classic cpn,porphyriaⁱ and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NACⁱ, high vitamin D3. Also treating with LIFE system and shaktimat

 All the stress factors including starvation, immüne activity or antibioticsⁱ may force RB towards CB.

 yılmaz.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

The idea is to always have enough carbs to prevent porpheria. Each person will have a different porpheria threshold so its going to be different for each person. In my case I need lots of carbs or I will get porpheria and start vomiting, having intestinal spasms and feeling very distressed

Fish, veges, fruits, carbs is what I personally try to eat.

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

   clammed-up, it is not so simple, we can see this on Patent:  6,579,854

   A high carbohydrate diet should be maintained to promote production of glucose (Pierach et al., Journal of the American Medical Association, 257:60-61 (1987)). Approximately 70% of the caloric intake should be in the form of complex carbohydrates such as bread, potato, rice and pasta. The remaining 30% of the daily diet should comprise protein and fat, which should ideally be in the form of fish or chicken.

   Sucrose and fructose should be avoided (Bottomly et al., American Journal of Clinical Pathology, 76:133-139 (198 1)) because the ingestion of large amounts of fructose trigger hepatic gluconeogenesis which then decreases the available glucose which is derived from glycogen breakdown within the liver. It is recommended that sport drinks which contain glucose be consumed.
   It is recommended that a patient suffering from porphyriaⁱ avoid milk products. Milk products contain lactose and lactoferrin, and have been empirically shown to make symptoms of porphyria worse.

   Multivitamins containing the B complex vitamins should be administered daily (e.g., one or multiple times), preferably in excess of RDA, to enhance glucose availability. Hepatic breakdown of glycogen with generation of glucose is assisted by taking these multivitamins that contain the B complex vitamins. Pyridoxine minimizes the porphyrin related porphyrial neuropathy. B complex vitamins include folic acidⁱ (e.g., 400 .mu.g per dosage; 1200 .mu.g daily maximum); vitamin B-1 (thiamin; e.g., 10 mg per dosage; 30 mg daily maximum); B-2 (riboflavin; e.g., 10 mg per dosage; 30 mg daily maximum); B-5 (panothenate; e.g., 100 mg per dosage; 300 mg daily maximum); B-6 (pyridoxine; e.g., 100 mg per dosage; 300 mg daily maximum) or pyridoxal-5-phosphate (e.g., 25 mg per dosage; 100 mg daily maximum) and B-12 (e.g., 500 .mu.g per dosage; 10,000 .mu.g daily maximum). The preferred method of administration is oral for the majority of these vitamins (twice daily), except for B-12 for which sublingual administration (three-times daily) is preferred

   So you had better to avoid to much fruit which contains fructose and sucrose(table sugar).

 yılmaz.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Fruit, eaten as fruit, tends not to be bad for you, since it comes in a natural slow-release form which makes its impact on your metabolism mild. Fruit juice, and sugary foods, are another story.

Yilmaz, your research is correct... yes to glucose/ complex carbs, no to sugar.

However... if i ate in a way that was strictly an antiporpheria diet i would miss out on certain vitamins and neglect focus to other issues. I just try to find a healthy balance while doing the least amount of damage. C. pneumoniae and porpheria may not be the only issues to consider. Take for example bartonella, should we be eating more or less red meat to prevent virulence factors? and h1 viruses, how do we increase lysiene and decrease arginine if we cant eat dairy and meat.

For me its like this. I eat fish for the vitamin Dⁱ, A and omega 3's. I eat carbs for porpheria and  I feel better when i eat them so Ive confirmed this to be correct. I eat fruit, especially berries because they are high in antioxidantsⁱ and have mannose for the bladder, plus cherries are anti -inflamatory. Fruits are high in vitamin C such as guava and i eat veges because they are mostly alkaline, they are rich in minerals, B vitamins and iron. I eat dairy for the lysiene and vitamin B's, and yogurt gives me bacterial culture. I dont eat many seeds or nuts because Im allergic to most and many are high in argenine. Very little junk food, rarely sugar. In porpheria emergencies i eat glucose candies, gatorade, pie filling, jellied cranberry sauce, pasta and  glucose tablets mixed with powdered drink crystals and emergen C.

As for lactoferrin, I believe it can break down biofilms, hmm maybe this is why it causes porpheria?

 

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/06_02/biofilms.shtml

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

A low carb diet is generally recommended to those with diabetes II, it can make insulin requirement unnecessary and stabilize blood sugars. And those with diabetes I need less insulin. Eating a low carb diet will often make you lose weight too, if you have accumulated some extra fat.

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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsⁱ.

  clammed-up, thanks for this good information. But what's said in the article is lactoferrin prevents formation or growth of biofilms rather than destroying it, so we need something more to destroye biofilms. I personally believe that biofilms are very important issue and may show an important contribution to some patients's inresponsiveness to CAPⁱ while some others respond much easily. 

  In anyway it seems to be a very good reason to drink much amounth of cow milk, even if clostrum and human milk are better.

  yılmaz 

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Yilmaz, its just one of many articles. Others call lactoferrin an antimicrobial, a biofilm inhibitor etc.. Depends on the species and enviornment in which its being showcased how lactoferrin is percieved and touted. Hey listen when you get a chance, if your not too buzy with cpnⁱ, can you do a bit of research and let me know what you think about red meat consumption (re: iron) with bartonella and the topic of virulence factors. Just whenever you get a chance or keep it in mind. Thanks yilmaz. P.S your doing a good job :)

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

 clammed-up, I'll do it for you and let you know. But now, I want your information about arginine and lysine. What I only know is that, arginine may increase virulance of mycoplasma, but when I asked to Dr. Stratton about arginine, he just said that ''don't worry about arginine''.

 yılmaz.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

 clammed-up, as far as I can see, there are controversy about teh effects of arginine on infectionsⁱ. There are some articles saying that arginin has an immüne enhancement effect against infections, some ather asy just the opposite and suggest to avoid it during infections like herpes. You can see one of them saying it protects against bartonella.

   Detrimental effects of Bartonella henselae are counteracted by l-arginine and nitric oxide in human endothelial progenitor cells

 

Abstract

The recruitment of circulating endothelial progenitor cells (EPCs) might have a beneficial effect on the clinical course of several diseasesⁱ. Endothelial damage and detachment of endothelial cells are known to occur in infection, tissue ischemia, and sepsis. These detrimental effects in EPCs are unknown. Here we elucidated whether human EPCs internalize Bartonella henselae constituting a circulating niche of the pathogen. B. henselae invades EPCs as shown by gentamicin protection assays and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). Dil-Ac-LDL/lectin double immunostaining and fluorescence-activated cell sorting (FACS) analysis of EPCs revealed EPC bioactivity after infection with B. henselae. Nitric oxide (NO) and its precursor l-arginine (l-arg) exert a plethora of beneficial effects on vascular function and modulation of immuneⁱ response. Therefore, we tested also the hypothesis that l-arg (1–30 mM) would affect the infection of B. henselae or tumor necrosisⁱ factor (TNF) in EPCs. Our data provide evidence that l-arg counteracts detrimental effects induced by TNF or Bartonella infections via NO (confirmed by DETA-NO and L-NMMA experiments) and by modulation of p38 kinase phosphorylation. Microarray analysis indicated several genesⁱ involved in immune response were differentially expressed in Bartonella-infected EPCs, whereas these genes returned in steady state when cells were exposed to sustained doses of l-arg. This mechanism may have broad therapeutic applications in tissue ischemia, angiogenesis, immune response, and sepsis.

  yılmaz.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Lysiene / arginine ratio balancing is in regards to The human herpes viruses which tend to act up when treatment for cpnⁱ is started. When cells start to undergo apoptosisⁱ, latent virus is released and the result is an active virus from the human herpes virus family:

HHV1- cold sores and facial pain 

HHV2-  blisters on the male/female organs.

Varicella-zoster virus - chickenpox, shingles

Cmv - cytomegalovirus, similar to flu, lymph issues

EBVⁱ - epstien barr virus, mononucleosis, lymph gland issues

hh6 - immunosupression, roseola

hh7 - immunosupression

hh8 Karposi's sarcoma

We are carriers of most of these viruses by teenagehood but our immuneⁱ system is supposed to keep them in a latent state.

Keeping a higher ratio of lysiene in the body than arginine is supposed to keep these viruses from becoming activated

 Chart on lysiene/ arginine content ----> http://www.herpes.com/Nutrition.shtml

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 Information from the website below <--- http://www.herpes.com/Treatment.shtml

"Diet is a very important factor in keeping herpes in remission. It has been found that foods high in I-Arginine may cause herpes outbreaks.

The Amino Acid Lysine Controls Herpes

Is it true that the amino acid called lysine, is good for herpes outbreaks?

Yes. Supplementation with free-form lysine has shown to be beneficial in controlling herpes along with a diet high in lysine and low in arginine. "This suggests that physicians in a position to study the effect of lysine in herpes simplex infectionsⁱ should do so. It appears to do no harm and may be a useful therapeutic measure."

Tissue culture studies have demonstrated a beneficial effect on viral replication when the amino acid ratio of arginine to lysine favors arginine. The opposite, preponderance of lysine to arginine, suppresses viral replication and inhibits cytopathogenicity of herpes simplex virus."

L-Lysine appears to be an effective agent for reduction of occurrence, severity and healing time for recurrent HSVⁱ infection.

What foods are high in lysine and low in arginine?

Fish, chicken, beef, lamb, milk, cheese, beans, brewer's yeast, mung bean sprouts and most fruits and vegetables have more lysine than arginine, except for peas.

Gelatin, chocolate, carob, coconut, oats, wholewheat and, white flour, peanuts, soybeans, and wheatgerm have more arginine than lysine.
(See Nutrition)

What are Lysine's Method of Action?

Nine proteins have been identified in the enveloped herpes simplex viron. In addition to the capsid proteins, the naked virions contain two additional proteins (VI and VII). Protein VII is an arginine-rich protein of the viral core. It is also known that the proteins synthesised by the herpes simplex virus infected cells contain more arginine but less lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryrosine, and isoleucine relative to leucine than the proteins synthesised by unaffected cells.

L-lysine 390 mg. was given orally at the first indication of onset of herpetic oral lesions in eight patients and vulvar lesions in two patients, with uniform rapid resolution of the lesions. This suggests that physicians in a position to study the effect of lysine in herpes simplex infections should do so. It appears to do no harm and may be a useful therapeutic measure.

Dosages:
The amount of lysine required to control herpes varied from case to case but a typical dose to maintain remission was 500 mg daily and active herpes required 1 to 6 g between meals to induce healing."

REFERENCES:

1. Kagan, C. Lysine Therapy for Herpes Simplex, The Lancet, 1:137 26 Jan 1974) 2. Griffith, R.S., A Multicentered Study of Lysine Therapy in Herpes simplex Infection", Dermatologica 156: 257-267 (1978)
3. Griffith, R.S., Success of L-Lysine Therapy in Frequently Recurrent Herpes simplex Infection, Dermatologica 175: 183-190 (1987)
4. Olshevsky, V., Becher, V. Virology, 1970, 40, 948.
5. Kaplan, A.S., Shimano, H., Ben-Porat, T. ibid. p.90.

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HERBS FOR ANTIVIRAL TREATMENT OF THESE INFECTIONS

Indian J Med Res. 2004 Jul ;120 (1):24-9 15299228 (P,S,G,E,B)

Antiviral activity of medicinal plants of Nilgiris.

P Vijayan, C Raghu, G Ashok, S A Dhanaraj, B Suresh

BACKGROUND & OBJECTIVES: Medicinal plants have been traditionally used for different kinds of ailments including infectious diseasesⁱ. There is an increasing need for substances with antiviral activity since the treatment of viral infections with the available antiviral drugs often leads to the problem of viral resistance. Herpes simplex virus (HSV) causes a variety of life threatening diseases. Since the chemotherapeutic agents available for HSV infections are either low in quality or limited in efficiency, there is a need to search for new and more effective antiviral agents for HSV infections. Therefore in the present study 18 plants with ethnomedical background from different families were screened for antiviral activity against HSV-1. METHODS: Different parts of the plants collected from in and around Ootacamund, Tamil Nadu were extracted with different solvents to obtain crude extracts. These extracts were screened for their cytotoxicity against Vero cell line by assay microculture tetrazolium (MTT) trypan blue dye exclusion, proteins estimation and 3H labeling. Antiviral properties of the plant extracts were determined by cytopathic effect inhibition assay and virus yield reduction assay. RESULTS: Three plant extracts Hypericum mysorense, Hypericum hookerianum and Usnea complanta exhibited significant antiviral activity at a concentration non toxic to the cell line used. The extracts of Melia dubia, Cryptostegia grandiflora and essential oil of Rosmarinus officinalis showed partial activity at higher concentrations. INTERPRETATION & CONCLUSION: Some of the medicinal plants have shown antiviral activity. Further research is needed to elucidate the active constituents of these plants which may be useful in the development of new and effective antiviral agents.

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The arginine/lysiene aspect is not too important if one is not affected by active any of the hh viruses.

In my case I have facial pain so I have to concern myself because I dont really know know whether it is lyme, or hhv1, or cpn alone or other. I develop severe facial pain when I eat almonds for example so this appears relevant to me.

Others may have chronic fatique thus they may concern themselves with epstien barr or cmv.

All just complications of CPN really. My belief is that an immune system free of intracellularⁱ infection should not have a problem keeping any of these in check.

You may want to find a better reference chart of the Human herpes viruses then what I've produced since It was mostly off the top of my head and may be slightly off. For the most part I think its its correct though.

Hope this helps yilmaz

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

Well regarding arginine, I've used it for over half a year now, and there was no other supplement that I used that caused as strong chills and should I say short episodes of flu-like symptoms. I started out with only 500 mg per day, and that was enough in the beginning, now I take several grams a day without a problem. I have not noticed any problems with any surfacing viral infectionsⁱ.

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No official diagnosis - but depression + cognitive issues - just using supplementsⁱ.

I had a dr once that gave me argenine IV for a very severe case of what he called "influenza virus" so I guess it depends on what one has. Oddly this was the dr who discovered that I had positive c pneumoniae antibodies long before I ever asked what there relevance was. However, interesting that it made me twice as sick as i was previously so i dont really know what he was thinking, or what his rationale was.

Interesting about bartonella though. Theres no winning lol.. It just seems that every supplement has its pros and cons.

I think this is why its so important to try to figure out what pathogens one is suffering from because what works for one germ might exasberate another.

Personally, lysene balancing diet is good for me. I even take the supplement every so often. Although where i once got coldsores on my lip almost once a month, I havnt seen one in about 3 years now, but that doesnt mean its not still activating in a nerve or internal tissue.

Bartonella is so tricky to figure out. There alot of factors that make it do what it does... and sorting them out seems to be tedious. My opinion is that B quintana and other unknown BLO's and are mostly genetically engineered which is why they have so many simularities to so many other bacteria.

 

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MSⁱ TMJ trigeminal neuralgia cfsⁱ neutropeniaⁱ cystitis nephritis optc-neuritis sinusitis. Dox200 zith250 rif 600 daily. Treating cpn and TBI's

   clammed-up; you don't need to worry about bartonella so much in my opinion, because you don't have a positive bartonella test and evenif you were bartonella infected the strong antibiotic protocol that you are on would be enough to overcome it.

   So you are right to be on a lysine balance diet because you should worry about herpes just as I should.

 yılmaz.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSⁱ (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.