Cpn test results - how serious?

This is my diagnosis - does anyone know how serious these levels are? Thank you.

Chlamydia pneumoniae antibodies

Chlam.pneum.-IgGi-antibodies (ELISA)+ 1.9 Ratio <0.8=neg.;>1.1=pos.

Chlam.pneum.-IgA-antibodies (ELISA)+ 1.7 Ratio <0.8=neg.;>1.1=pos.

 

The specific Chlamydia pneumoniae-IgG- and -IgA-antibodies are an indication for an

actual humoral immunei response against Chlamydia pneumoniae. Please look at the

Chlamydia-Elispot-LTT for the actual cellular activity.

 

Chlamydia pneumoniae Elispot LTT

Chlamydia pneumoniae-Elispot LTT + 5 SI < 2

The result of the Elispot-Lymphocyte-Transformation-Test (LTT) is an indication for

an actual cellular activity against Chlamydia pneumoniae.

CD 57 Flow Cytometry

Leucocytes 4.08 tsd/ul 4-10

Peripheral Lymphocytes 37.7 % 18.0-51.0

Lymphocytes 1538 /μl 468-5100

Natural killer cells - 5.73 % 6-29

Natural killer cells 88 /μl 60-700

CD 57 positive NK-cells 3.01 % 2-77

CD 57 positive NK-cells - 46 /μl 100-360

 

The CD57-cell-count is an indication for a chronic immune-suppressive situation

caused by Borrelia burgdorferi.

 

Borrelia burgdorferi Elispot LTT

Borrelia burgd. Fully Antigen (+) 2 SI < 2

Borrelia OSP-Mix (OSPA/OSPC/DbpA) (+) 2 SI < 2

Borrelia LFA-1 (+) 2 SI < 2

The results of the Elispot-Lymphocyte-Transformation-Tests are an indication for a

borderline/very weak actual cellular activity against Borrelia burgdorferi.

I will try to help on two results here.

 

IgGi is an indication of LONG term infection or past infection

IgA is a present indication of infection.

Both results are not hugely over the reference range but in saying this you have CpNi.

 

As for the CD57 results - yep, you most definally have chronic lymes, and with that reading for some time I would say.

 

I hope that helps some what.

Also, why don't you email the German lab. They are very helpful and I would have no doubh that the lab doctor Armin will have no problem in answering any questions or explaining your results in more detail. 

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Can I suggest the next thing you should do is get a few other blood tests done to see where everything is at.

Your White and Red blood cell count would be lower than the refernece range given those results.

I also would look into getting your Vit D levels checked along with your B12 levels.

Now, with your B12 levels (and I know the jury is still out on this one) but I believe that serum B12 levels ins not a great indication for your correct B12 level. I would look at getting Active B12 levels checked. This test is more acurite (Well I believe so).

 

Then like I said before, it might take some time to get yourself going on the Axb protocal so get going on the supplementsi. I myself found and find Allicin liquid just brill.. expensive but it packs a punch.. couple that with OLE and a few other anti viral herb/supplementsi and vit d3 and vit b12 and you are on the road.

Let no one tell you that there is a quick fix to this problem but there is a fix. The road is long and at times dark, but with every road you take you will always get to where you want to go, once you stick on that journey.

Good luck. At least now you know what is wrong with you and you can start fixing it!

It'S better than the label of MSi... which according to the pharma industry they don't know what causes it but they sure know how to charge for it!

 

All the best. D

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Thank you Darren - I very much appreciate your input. None of my doctors explained the results to me as they are from an external lab. 

I will email Dr. Armin Schwarzbach, if I have any more questions about the tests, get the blood tests you recommended done ASAP,  as well as obtain the additional supplementsi. I've heard of Allicin but not of OLE. I have to research what is available to me. I am trying to be pro-active as I am fearing MSi (or worse diagnosis) from a Neurologist that will be seing on December 2. At the moment I cannot get on the CAPi protocol. I may have to travel to Germany or US for treatments. However, suspecting LYME after an MS like ceizure last February I ordered Samento and Banderol from Dr. Marty Ross' website and once I got my tests results from Germany I got got in touch with a local LYME literate ND. She has me on Samento and Banderol and is also treating me for the Cpni with Byron White formula =A-Cpn. I will be switching to Byron White for LYME for a month or so and also adding Byron White A-V. I also take Proboost. I just looked at my supplementsi and noticed that one of them (NFH - Candida SAP) has Odorless Garlic 1% Allicin. Is this strong enough?

I am also already taking NACi. I researched Fibromyalgiai and CFSi (some of my diagnosis or misdiagnosis) and after viewing Dr. Hyman's Youtube videos started taking NAC and DL-alpha-Lipoic acid. I had no idea NAC is a test form Cpn until I found this website. I did have a strong reaction to NAC - huge ear/sinus issues and muscle pains like my tendons were being torn. I assumed I was getting worse at an accelerated rate. 

There is so much to learn. I am very grateful for finding this community of knowledgeable and supportive people willing to share and learn together in order to get better.

If you think of anything else please let me know. Thank you!

Mia

 

OLE is olive leaf extract... I am not sure if you can post brands but if I am not let me know but Seagate OLE is a pure formula and Ihink is good.

Allicin is great but there are so many brands out there. I take the liquid form myself which is like eating a bunch of garlic but hea, if it is doing you good! I can give you a web addrss if you p.m. me and I think they deliver to U.S. Also, Source Naturals Turmeric 1000 as it has the black pepper added to absorb it. Vit E and Vit C. Also I find myself drinking some fine blends of herb tea, not the branded ones but the real deal stuff. I did a course on it and make the teas from the plants.

There is a plant for every sort of condition, and remember most of our axb started for natural herbs/plants and was altered to sell as medicine.

 

I recently started on Litium Orate (supplement form) is has anti viral properties and crosses the BBBi, it also I think repairs damaged tissue, can remember what Dr. Terri Walhs said about it.

there is also a bellef out there (somewhere) that it helps your cells utilize a range of B vit's including B12, but I am still trying to get 100% confirmation on this. Dr Terri Walhs used it herself but for other reasons.

 

The one bit of advise I will give you is to stay positive and calm. Stress for anyone is not good but esp... for us! Try not Google yourself to death looking up stuff. The internet is a great place but can be frightening if you come across things of a negative nature!

 

Anything you do, research it, and research it again, until you are happy. Do not act in heast! Your body needs alot of caring now so treat it good.

 

Look at your diet, it is true what they say "you are what you eat". but remember have a life also, ease yourself into your new lifestyle and don't rush or panic yourself into it. I bought myself a nuti-bullet as I think eating the whole fruit and veg might be better than just drinking the juice, I find this machine just brill.

 

All this stuff costs money so take it handy and don't get carried away. You will beat this but be patient.

Gultrn/ Dairy alcohol and smoking are things you should consisder cutting out.

There was a very interesting doctor on a national radio station where I live link below:

http://www.todayfm.com/Gluten-Sensitivity-explained<

Interesting Views!

 

Some people get their mercury fillings removed... don't know about that but I did it anyway. I said why not I was doing so much what was one more thing!

 

Once you get into it you will get days that are bad and days that are good and you will notice a cycle. 

Magnisium liquid is good for night time pains.

And my last point is the Allicin I take is pure Allicin... only water added. 5ml 3xtimes daily and by God it delivers a punch to those bugs. Your gut is super important in all this, it would be no harm to treat yourself for leaky gut.. Plenty of water to flush those guys out once you start killing them.

And have a look a liver flushes...

Oh, on last supplement is Milk Thisle.... good for what would be a clogged liver for you.

 

Hope that helps to get you going but remember... be comfortable in what you are putting into your body... talk to the experts and your LLD before you start doing things and taking things.

 

Everyone is differnet and reacts in a different way so you will have to do things that suit your body.

 

Good Luck D

 

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

WOW. You are a great help and thanks! My vite D levels went suddenly very high - a little calcium in the blood too....

 

Linda

I take OLE, Milke thistle, Mag citrate, turmeric and something with tons of garlic in called Protox. + a ton of other supplementsi - lots of pills. Gluten/dairy are gone, but red wine still here - hehe. Are you on abxi for this? I am on the Capi for CPNi and I know the doxyi helps with the Lyme, but needed in higher dosage I think. I went to one LLMD, but no license now and not alot of help. I need to fin another.

 

Thank you for all of this,

Linda

 

Hi Mia,

what you also could do is the herbal alternative of Stephen Harrod Buhner, there´s a protocol for lyme and cpni. I posted the protocol for cpn  here some time ago. Look at his site :www.buhnerhealinglyme.com

You can get all his recommended herbs in the USA.

I did Wheldons protocol for five years, which helped a lot, but I stayed on the same level  (between 3 and 9 SI - BCA ( I´m from Germany) - my immunei system kept supressed.

I still stay on most of the recommended supps of D.Wheldon.

Buhners protocoll really helped my immunesystem to function again, and the SI level dropped.

Another good lab in Germany is the IMD Berlin. You always can get in contact with one of the microbiologists, to answer the questions your doc probably doesn´t know. They can test your immune system.

Best wishes

spinx

 

 Wheldon CAPi May 2008,   52  Tinii pulses - stopped Nov.2013- Buhner´s protocol Dec. 2013 till  June 2014 - cpni free Oct. 2014

I live in Ireland and its a struggle to get doctors to even accept that lymes excists and Cpni as a serious issue so I was left with a situation to look at this with a different approach and treat this in a different way. Over the last 6 years I started to inform myself about herbs and supplementsi and how you body works and reacts to enviromental and viral factors.

 

So to answer your question I am not on apx protocal but tackling this using natures weapons!

 

The turmeric you are using does it have black pepper in it as turmeric need black pepper to be absorbed by your body. The OLE has to be pure as some OLE is rubbish and a waste of money.

OLE stops viral reproduction and can cross the BBBi. When I can i also forage when out walking, coming across wild garlic, berries and I even was found eating daisey's. Beaware please you need to know what you are doing when you are foraging, really you don't want to eat the wrong thing!!

I also use a rife machine and I know it sounds weird and maybe stupid but it does help and work, well for me. After I began using it a first I noticed some improvements and I do notice that it helps me, but in saying this please don't go out and start buying rife machines, they are very expensive and like I said worked for me but some people notice no different in using it.

 

The allicin I use I think is equal to taking hundreds of garlic cloves and remember garlic has a huge anti viral / fungal etc and is a great sulfer agent like onions etc... and sulfer is good for our mitochondria. Also, I believe that with Cpn I notice that our blood becomes sticky or thicker and that adds to our problems and garlic keeps that at bay.

 

As for the leaky gut or gut issues, there are plenty of natural stuff out there to heal that.

Treating Cpn / Lymes  is like treating a multi trauma in my opinion, not just one thing will be enough.

It is important to stablise the situation before you start killing those bugs.

 

The abxi protocal works great for the people who can avail of it but for those who can't, out of the box thinking and approach has to come to play...

Like I said before already, you need to know what you are doing when you are using supplementsi so look into what you take and ask...never be afraid to ask people / LLD etc... people are good and if they can help they will.

 

I posted a link somewhere on here a few weeks ago... this is where i done my courses and I found it great. She has two books about oils and herbs which gives you an insight into natures gifts to combat viral bacterial issues.... Herbs are good in fighting viral / bacterial issues and these guyys don't becomne resistent to them. Maybe a bit heavy to read but as I say to people I take what I require from peoples advise and thats all. Knowledge is the most important factor when fighting this. Arm yourself with knowledge is my moto (-:

 

Good Luck D

 

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Darren,

THANK YOU for all the great advice and information. I agree with your "multi trauma" analogy and the approach you are taking to tackle it.

I just sent you a PM. No pressure to reply.

Cheers,

Mia

I would dearly love to try the Buhner, but afraid to be allergic to some of the herbs, etc. I have a whack of severe allergy...any suggestions? Soooo glad this is working for you!

Low CD57 is found in Chronic Lyme, but is not diagnostic.

http://www.researchednutritionals.com/information.cfm?ID=200<

According to Dr Garth Nicholson, low CD57 is also found in Mycoplasma infectionsi, even if there is no Lyme Disease.... probably more indicative of chronic Intracellulari Infections.... such as Lyme, MPn and CPni.

MirHW,

Where did you get theses tests done, please and thanks? I had one for CPNi - positive, but no levels given and now I need to test for Lyme/retest for CPN. I really don't know what to do - hearing so much about false positive/negative.....

 

Thanks soo much in advance!

Hello Sphinx,

I appreciate your recommendations. I am glad to hear that the Buhners' protocol improved your immunei system. 

I actually discussed Buhners protocol with my Naturopathic Doctor, however she said that it was not strong enough to kill the germs. I am not sure if I agree with her. He clearly states which herbs are specific antibiotics for Cpni and LYME and which ones strengten the immune system. She seems to believe that they only strenghten the immune system. Right now I am on semi-Cowden protocol for LYME and on Byron White formula for Cpn in addition to a few supplementsi. I will be adding a few more supplementsi soon.

Long term abxi are not available to me at this time. I would have to travel to US, Germany, or UK for treatment which would be enourmously exhausting and expensive.  I am also not sure if my body could take long terms abxi. I will discuss Buhner's further with my ND next time I speak with her.  It is good to hear from someone who was on it and it worked for them.

How long did you stay or Buhners or are you still on it? Do you order the herbs from US?

Thanks also for the lab in Berlin, Germany info. I will try to contact them with my questions. 

Take good care,

Mia

Annelet,

Thank you for the article - very informative.

I have not been tested for Mycoplasma only for LYME and Cpni.

My LYME results from Igenex are:

Borrelia burgdorferi Elispot LTT
Borrelia burgd. Fully Antigeni (+) 2 SI < 2
Borrelia OSP-Mix (OSPA/OSPC/DbpA) (+) 2 SI < 2
Borrelia LFA-1 (+) 2 SI < 2
The results of the Elispot-Lymphocyte-Transformation-Tests are an indication for a
borderline/very weak actual cellular activity against Borrelia burgdorferi.

There is so much research out there my head is spinning from it, when it's not spinning from the bacteria.

M

 

 

luckypenny

I got my tests done at Infectolab in Germany

here is the information you need posted few days ago under Cpni testing

http://www.cpnhelp.org/search/node/Infectolab<

If you need more information please PM

M

 

Did you not get the Lyme IgGi and IgM done at IGenex ?

My impression of your " weak cellular activity against Lyme"....... it is a bit like " being a little bit pregnant" !!!!

Maybe you are not mounting a very strong immunei defense because you are Immune Suppressed as a result of the Chronic Intracellulari infectionsi?

Do you know your Vitamin Di levels ? It is worth noting that Chronic Lyme can down-regulate the Vitamin D receptors by around 50%, so what appears to be an OK level in the serum is not reflective of the level inside the cells. Have a reference for this somewhere, but cant find it.

Just by getting Vitamin D up to optimal levels can have a big effect on immune funtion and lower inflammationi.

THANKS! I'll read and then PM you

Annelet,

I like your analogy " being a little bit pregnant" !!!!

I believe you are correct about my immunei system - I actually feel how suppressed my immune system is even without the tests as I used to have boundless energy. I am fighting off exhaustion all day and at night I have restless sleep because all symptoms get worse as soon as I lie down. I have to force myself to get up, to eat, etc.   

My IGeneX results for IgGi and IgM are NEGATIVE:

band 39 IND

band 41 +

I am going for blood work in a few days. I will make sure to get Vit D tested. Are the blood levels accurate? What if my body is not absorbing it properly? I just this week started a new Vit D - by Genestra=D-Mulsion. Maybe this one will purk me up better than the pill form I was taking previously.

Thank you for input - I appreaciate it very much.

M

 

Try take the liquid form of Vit D3.

And as I said Active B12 blood work is better than serum B12 test.

The Vit D3 test is 

D3 1 25 DIHYDROXY VITD

a little better.

 

Also, look at where your Red blood cell and white cell levels are at!

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Hi Darren,

The new Vit D3 I just started is in a liquid form and of pharmaceutical grade - each drop contains 25 mg/1000 IU Cholecaliciferol in extra virgin olive oil and lemon oil. Is this the type you meant?

Thanks for the name of the blood work tests. I will add the exact names to my list to take to my MD. I think I better phone the lab here in Canada before I see my doc to make sure these tests (Vit D and B12) are available to us or find out what is available to save my doctor a bit of time. CBC level tests are no problem to get here.

Thank you!!!

 

 

1000 IU is a little light... work it up to around 4000 IU daily... maybe even spliting into two doses.. Vit is an fat soluable so take it with a meal....

 

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

sent you a few pm's Mia...

 

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

The d-mulsion is good.

Dont think you can get the active-B12 Holotranscobalamin done in Canada at all.

Regular serum b12 is OK in that if it is very low, it suggests one thing.... if it is very high it suggests that there are transportation issues and/or Lithium deficiency/depletion.

Your 23andme will show up the B12 and Folate">i high risk SNP's and a Hair Analysis for toxins will show up your Lithium levels. If Lithium is very low or depleted it is important to fix that before adding in b12.

Anne

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