Cpn panel updated with D25, D1,25 test results

I recently had a blood test done for Cpni panel to see what I could learn. I realize these tests are not considered accurate. But I was curious & had the opportunity ... so why not?

The panel included C. trachomatis, C. pneumoniae & C. psittaci.

Both the C. trachomatis and C. psittaci results came back normal reference range and said "ANTIBODY NOT DETECTED".

However the C. pneumoniae came back marked high on two fronts.

IgG  1:512 H   (reference range: 1:64)

IgA   1:64  H    (reference range: 1:16)

IgM <1:10

Interpretation = PAST INFECTION

I have read enough around here to realize that this actually does indicate that I do have an infection inspite of their interpretation. I mean it is only obvious to me after my taking 2400 mg NACi & then 100 mg daily of Mino causing me multiple symptoms day after day is not normal. So anyway... I wanted to post this in my blog for others to see.

If another opportunity should arise for me are there any other tests that would be interesting to do in the future?

By the way ... big improvement ... the white's of my eyes are actually no longer red. Hoping soon to follow will be the lung congestion, muscle/tendon and the gallbladder inflammation. When these settle down then I will be able to add the zithi me thinks. I am finding that Ibuprofen and Mucinex help me much more than Benicar so I stopped it a few days ago. Was making my woozy head more so ... I thought .... but in hindsight it may have been the low grade fever plaguing me all week. Doing better today at any rate. Slainte! MM

10-17-08  MY UPDATE: I am adding my 25D & 1,25 D test results to this blog entry. They were done via Quest Diagnostics so I do realize they are lower than what they say they are. Nevertheless, they are improved from last time so that counts for something. They say they are normal but since they are something like 20-30% lower than an accurate test I will keep that in mind.

Vit D 1,25 D = 37  (reference 15-60 pg/mL)

This is historically low for me. Yay! 

Vit D 25 = 35  (reference 20-100 ng/mL)

This is historically high for me. Yay again! Laughing

My immunei system is working like a dog. I have had daily fevers for two weeks. Last week they were 24 hrs but at least this week is more like 6-9 hrs. What really gets to me is the bronchial spasms I am experiencing cause I can't talk half the time. I could use an inhaler but that would mean another doctor visit so I press on without it. Our insurance does not cover doctor visits.

Gallbladder continues to be very sore but no more painful spasms lately. Drinking lemon juice, olive oil and water mixture helps me. But I also take liv-gall bladder cleanser herbal formula and 500 mg tumeric everyday. Not ready to go for the Ursodiol if I can keep things under control.

I am maintaining but admit I feel tortured at times with all the pains coming and going in my limbs. But not as bad as sometimes on the MP which just seemed to antagonize with no relief. I think I am feeling a bit of healing at times as I do have a bit of relief. I am hoping so anyway.

I often find myself wondering how long this dance goes on before tolerable is attained so I can take Zith? Does not look like this month it will happen. I won't do it until I have a week or two of tolerable I'm thinking. Does that sound about right? Slainte! MM

 

Comments

MM, I didn't finish all of

MM,

I didn't finish all of the projects yet and way too sore and overworked for a ride this weekend but... if all goes well, I'll hopefully be able to ride soon.  

I wanted to add a comment on your D... I would continue to work your D dosing up to at least 1-2000ius/day and stay there.  Dr Stratton told me he personally takes 2000 ius/day.  Although your levels aren't showing deficiency any longer, you could still improve your levels for optimal health and cancer avoidance.  Wink

I plan on taking my daily 2200 ius throughout the winter months and then drop it some in the springtime since I actually get a whole lot more than that in the sun here in Phoenix.  

Red, 

You know, after reading your comments, I'm now rethinking "seasonal allergies" of which I'm having some now.  It might be increase from spending so much more time outdoors while we are still having lots of warm spring/summer like weather now while I'm working on my pool.  I'm outside in 90+ degree temps with lots of exposed skin and have a tan to show for it but the sniffles... well, they feel like allergies but IMOi, it might be the increase in the D.  Hmmm... good to think about.  

I would agree that it's important not to go too quickly on CAPi.  I was definitely close to dropping out myself after my second 2 day tinii pulse.  It's important to have some "up" time too.  Smile 

NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons

Don't believe everything you think!  

MM: "The lab was Focus

MM: "The lab was Focus Diagnostics in Cypress, CA. Does that make any difference? Why do you ask MacK?"

Getting consistent test results is difficult. Some labs seem better than others at detecting cpni. It helps to know who's finding it and who isn't. Apparently, Mayo has been getting good resuts, too.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Excellent find JimK. I

Excellent find JimK. I could not remember where I saw that page but I vaguely recall reading it in another life. <wink> I printed it just now and will keep it on my desk to refer to when I get confused again. No worries! I will not try a Zithi tablet unless my better half agrees it is time. Often he has a clearer mind than mine so I use his. He doesn't seem to mind. Laughing MM

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

MM- Yes, you can start

MM- Yes, you can start slowly on Azith straight from Dr. Stratton:

Once antibioticsi are ready to be started, I would start with a macrolide. We like azithromycin because it is easy to give and has become somewhat cheaper since it went off patent. I would still give just one 250 mg azithromycin tablet and then wait two weeks to see if there is any reaction to it. Then I would give two tablets, one on Monday and one on Wednesday. Once again I would wait two weeks.

I'd continue in this way, adding each dose until the patient was taking 250 mg of azithromycin MWF. If the patient has severe reactions (meaning they can't work - most people are trying to work and take care of a family while they are on this therapy), I'd slow down the process.

http://www.cpnhelp.org/strattonprotocolupdate<

 

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Great to hear you are

Great to hear you are getting projects done Reenie. Maybe you could take a short ride in between? Probably do your spirit a lot of good. I had several hours of feeling good so I took the Pom girls for a ride the day after you posted that cute doggie crusing pic here. We all felt better for it.

Wow Red ... all very interesting indeed. Can't say that the vit D doses I take come close to the ones you mentoned. I have been very cautious about it and have worked up to 400 IU twice a day for a daily total of 800 IU. Since my test results are so much improved I didn't think I would raise it much more than another 400 IU for a total of 1200 IU daily.

As far as my symptoms ... I tend to believe they are resulting from the Minoi mostly because when I was doing the MP I had the same ones from it. I did not have any D in my diet at that time and 25D test results were insufficient to immeasurable during that time. The main difference I am finding now is after a couple weeks the symptom target area shifts or becomes less aggravated. I have a sense of feeling more well slightly.

I am eager to try Azith but won't until my symptoms are tolerable for a couple weeks. (nobody said I couldn't)  There is always the chance it will improve my situation not make it worse isn't there? LOL  I thought I read somewhere JimK was telling someone that when you use the two abxi then the Cpni don't reproduce. I would like to get to that point ASAP!

I know I have to be careful. I know I shouldn't rush things. But on the other hand I don't want to stay sick any longer than need be while twiddling my thumbs. I don't want the Cpn reproducing while I mess around trying to feel better. I know there is a balancing act in all this. I was hoping I would get more detailed pointers from someone about their experience on this exact issue. Balancing it out to know when to take the Azith. How did you know?

Nobody has answered my question or pointed me to somewhere to read more about this. Can you start by taking Azith once a week & work up or does that make things worse? Do you have to take it M,W,F at all costs? What is the strategy on that? I need to understand this better even if it is months before I am able to do it. It is how my mind works. I did step 1, I am on step 2, now I need to learn about step 3. (before it is time to be on it) Understand? <wink> Plan ahead is my nature.

Enjoyed hearing from both of you. Sounds like you both are improving these days. I know it is a roller coaster ride. I know how to ride it after doing the MP for 3 1/2 years. So far this is much better. The moppers really do make a huge difference. Not to mention large enough abxi dosage to do the work not just antagonize things. Just my opinion based on my own experience thus far. I have no scientific background as you must know by now. Hope everybody is finding some joy in life today.  MM

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

It's great to hear you're

It's great to hear you're doing so much better, Reenie!

And Miying,  there's no rush.   As Dr Stratton mentioned to me, it appears Vit D3 packs a powerful punch.   I believe from my own experience that much of this may be related to secondary porphyriai, presumably from it causing the parasitized cells to undergo apoptosisi, killing the intracellulari Cpni and dumping the accumulated porphyrins.     Many of your symptoms may be related to secondary porphyria so be sure to use all counter measures that seem to work for you.   

Also, of course, Vit D3 has been shown to have direct killing effect, through elevated cathelicidins, against other pathogens, so you could be dealing with the effects of other pathogens being killed.   IMHOi, it's all a good thing, unless of course it occurs too quickly!

FYI, given my family's recent history, I've become the Pied Piper of Vitamin D3, and nearly 50% of the people I "convert" get a very large upper respiratory response to only 2000 IU a day of Vitamin D3 somewhere @ 1 month after starting.   Many seem to get this 2 or 3 more times before it stops even if they hold steady at 2000 IU a day.   If they ramp up to 4000 IU a day, or as some have done, 6000 IU a day, they will often get the same response @ 1 month after upping the dose.  

I had something similar when I upped my dose of Vit D3 even after 11 months on CAPi.   It behaves much like a really bad sinus infection, with lots of (if you excuse the graphic nature of this) green and red nasal discharge, fever, aches and pains, etc.   It also seems to cause a very sore throat, and maybe some chest congestion, but as everyone explains, it feels much different than a cold or flu since there is much less chest congestion.   It mostly stays up in the face and throat and seems to cause sinus headaches for many who don't generally get them.  

The good news is that once this dies down after a few months, almost everyone to a T lists all kinds of odd aches, pains, allergies, headaches, urinary issues, etc seem to miraculously disappear.  Go figure, huh?

The only thing I can tell you though is, from my own experience, higher doses of Vit D3 make CAP treatment VERY, VERY difficult!    I was on CAP for 11 months and feeling great from it really before starting only 4000 IU of Vit D3.   7 months later, after suffering through secondary porphyria and die-off like I hadn't experienced earlier on CAP, I finally had to make a choice between the two.  The ill effects had just kept building and building.

Now, after almost another 16 months of Vit D3 + NACi alone, and @ 10 months of 10,000 IU of Vit D3 (I worked up from 4000 IU to 10,000 IU slowly over 6 months), I believe I'm ready to dip my toe back into the water of combining this with CAP to hopefully finish up treatment.      But I will be VERY, VERY careful.

My point on this long post is to hopefully make you understand the effects of Vit D3, and to make you understand that there is no rush to start the other antibiotic.   Remember, go only as fast as you can.   The point in treatment is to feel better.   While you may at times during treatment feel worse than before you started, you do not want to push so fast that you can't function or feel the need to drop out.  Remember, treatment times are measured in months, not days.    You may need to hold steady on your treatment regimine for several months before all die-off and secondary porphyria symptoms fade away enough and you are ready to add the next agent.

Hang in there, and keep us posted on your progress!   Continued good luck!  

Treatment for Rosaceai<

  • CAPi:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NACi:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

MM, I think you're doing

MM,

I think you're doing really great with the Ds!  Yay is right!! 

IMOi, the road can feel very rocky at first on CAPi but you WILL get to feeling better and then you'll notice alot more improvement with your immunei system up and running with the supplementsi and adjuncts.  

I am personally feeling much better.  So much better now that I'm able to once again take on some new projects.  I have a ceiling fan to hang tomorrow and a pool pump to plumb tomorrow.  These projects wouldn't be my first choice as I'm itching to ride again soon which is a good sign I'm feeling better again lately.  

NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons

Don't believe everything you think!  

Good day to go cruise'n!

Good day to go cruise'n! Cool I love it Reenie! Thanks!

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

Miying Meng, if you happen

Miying Meng, if you happen to notice that the red sports car caused any improvement in your symptoms, any at all, be sure to post that, please?

Ron

On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)

Began rifampin trial 1/14/09

Currently: on intermittent

Exhilirating escapism

Exhilirating escapism producing happy thoughts & big sigh of relief for one thing. Wink

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

Ahh, just like my Harley. 

Ahh, just like my Harley.  Wink

It's good for the soul, if nothing else... 

NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons

Don't believe everything you think!  

That is sooo cute!

That is sooo cute!

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Excellent information to

Excellent information to read. Thank you Louise for taking time to put it in my blog. Most helpful information to have.

I had little doubt with my reactions to NACi then Minoi that I have a Cpni infection. Nevertheless, for a second emotionally I was somewhat taken back when I saw the results. Funny how that is. Wink

On the MPi by now my gallbladder would be screaming "STOP" instead of just being very sore with a few spasms or spurts of intense pain if I move wrong. I am amazed somewhat that I can continue on with daily doses of 100 Mino. Thinking rather than ALL inflammationi there may also be some healing going on too. Hope so anyway. Feels different now at any rate.

Yes, I also underwent (at least a couple times) over the years all the liver disease panels with no indication it was hepatitis, etc. causing me trouble. I was disturbed when after a few years on the MP my normal liver turned into a fatty liver.

Isn't it amazing how our thoughts can change. Like years ago when my DH bought me a red sport coupe everywhere I looked I saw the same auto. Now with this chronic cough from Cpn I notice also others with it. I think ... "oh, no they have Cpn" & have an urge to send them here. I am positive my own parents have Cpn. But they are too old to do this protocol and would not anyway. They have always humored me God bless them ... "their health nut".

You see my entire life something has been wrong with me so I was always trying out healthy things to feel better. I cannot remember when I did not have low energy, always cold, chronic tonsilitis, chronic bronchitis, sinusitis, etc. Now I know what it is finally. So looks like the Cpn have had a long time to invade my tissues unfortunately.

Like you Louise I have no other health issues ... my thyroid is good as well. I have never had surgery. I was doing ok until shingles hit me in 2001 and then pericarditis in 2002 followed by "falling apart" they labeled as FM.

It is good to hear you are doing well with your program. I still am keeping the Cholestryamine in mind to try someday if need be. You just never know what is going to benefit you hugely until you try it I find.

Thanks for your encouragement. I appreciate it. Slainte! MM

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

Hi Miying Meng, my

Hi Miying Meng, my personal Chlamydia pneumoniae Differentiation Antibody Panel (IgGi. IgM, IgA) rsults are as follows.

Reference Range for Quest Lab at the time of my initial testing - May 2007 (Reference range means that which is considered to be in the range of "normal" I believe):

IgM < 1:16 Antibody not detected

IgG < 1:32 Antibody not detected

IgA < 1:16 antibody not detected

Further general written explanation of lab report included with the results of my test continues below.

IgM titers of 1:16 or greater are indicative of recent infectionsi.  However, anti-chlamydial IgM is very cross-reactive and may demonstrate titer to more than one species.

IgG titers of 1:32 or greater may indicate past exposure to a particular species.  Titers of 1:128 or less may be due to cross-reactive antibody or a non-specific stimulation of chlamydial antibody Infection with a particular species usually yields antibodies of a higher titer than with non-infecting species.  IgG titers in recently infected individuals are usually greater than or equal to 1:512.

IgA titers may be elevated in recurrent or chronic infections and may be helpful in identifying the infection species of Chlamydia when cross-reactive IgG is present.

 

My pesonal results are below and before any abxi were Rx by MD.

My results prior to any ABXi and basis of my dxi were;

IgM - <1:16  This is within In Range Reference range - Antibody not detected

IgG - 1:512High This is out of reference range which is <1:32

 IgA - 1:512Hhigh  This is out of reference range which is <1:16

My thoughts on my test results above follow;

 My dx is CFSi and I had a high bacterial loadi although the IgM has not indication of recent infection.   My IgG and IgA indicate CHRONIC infection as I see it.   CPni is problematic for me as a persistent chronic intracellulari infection. 

Depending on the target sites of CPn in your body this could all come out as negative, yet you could still actually be postive just not registering the infection by your immunei system as the infection is primarily intracellular. 

I am saying this for others who may read this in the future that lab data may confirm that the bacteria is or has been in your system but it does not exclude that fact that even if it is not seen it can still be quite active intracellulary in the system.

It is important to realize that a postive may be a postive but a negative is not necessarily a negative, and one should not be relying on lab data as a dx of negative for CPn, or exclude the rationale to use emperical treatment. 

My result is somewhat unusual because I recall several episodes of a respiratory infection that in retrospect could have classified for the Dx "walking" pneumoniae for which I did not seek antibiotic therapy ( in those days I was pretty anti-antibiotic, thinking that the body would triumph over what ever, I was sick but able to function.  I hear folks like this coughing for extended periods of time and now think CPn.)

Miying Meng thanks for sharing your lab results.  I am courting elevated liver enzymes, have been for a year now.  They are stable in the moderately elevated range and my MD is watching them every 3 months.  In my case all liver viruses have been ruled out and Doxyi is the culprit.  Seeing your elevation to Minoi starting I can see that might not be the answer for me.  I have cut my doxy to minimum 100 mg a day and will retest when I have been reduced for 8 weeks to see if that has rested my liver cells enough.   I had a liver ultrasound last Feb and all my results continue to point back to Doxy.  My gall stones found 30 years ago are still there however, Except for CPn and Bb I am basically healthy with little remarkable out of norm, even my thyroid is AOK. 

Methylation protocol simple is working well for me for general energy level support. Cholestyramine intermittently keep my fatty endotoxinsi and fat soluable porphyrin levels low.  Brainfog, decision making and memory are coming up to speed.  All from 16 months on CAPi, it has certainly been worth the process and the challenges.

Hope you begin to turn the corner soon.   Louise

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

I had the tests done on

I had the tests done on 9/30/08 which would be 26 days on 100 mg Minoi & while taking all recommended supplementsi at that time too of course. I knew my immunei system was stirred up so thought it would be interesting to see what would show up. The lab was Focus Diagnostics in Cypress, CA. Does that make any difference? Why do you ask MacK?

Already received my other blood tests too. My liver ALT and AST are slightly elevated after being normal since a year ago 10/07 & several tests throughout the year. My D-dimer is positive and elevated again. Always problem areas for me when I take antibioticsi. Fatty liver, inflamed gallbladder and sticky blood.

Expecting my 25D and 1,25 D tests next. I expect them both to be higher. Been supplementing some with D3 and with all my inflammationi my 1,25D is usually high. We shall see ...

Thanks for the link Reenie. I will go check it out. Slainte! MM

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

Positives. At least you

Positives. At least you have confirmation. Which lab?

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Hi MM, Yep, looks like CPni

Hi MM,

Yep, looks like CPni for sure.  When did you have these tests done?  Was it while you were on NACi and supplementsi or before?  FWIWi, I just posted some info today about how my first tests were negative or lower and then the next ones were higher once I began the supplementsi and sunbathing. 

I think we previously crippled our already weakened immunei system before finding CAPi and now we are back on track for recovery. 

My comments are in two posts in this thread along with a reference to all of my labs: 

Need help for my sister. Why CPn test POS and then NEG?<

NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons

Don't believe everything you think!