CAP for Lyme

What I have never understood about this protocol is this:

The protocol is tailored to fit the lifecycle of c.pn. Is the life cycle of the tick-born diseasesi the same and similarly vulnerable?

Isn't it possible that while we use CAPi for c.pn. other pathogens that happen to be in our bodies may develop resistant strains?

stealth pathogens remain entirely viable. just my opinion.resistant strains, as well.

diagnosed MSi Jan.2000 ,  chronic neurological lyme disease Nov.2002.

doxyi 100 mg. 1BID. roxyi.150 mg.? BIDi,adding rifampin soon, pulsed tinii. every 3 weeks, as of oct.17/08, rifampin,naltrexone (LDNi),NACi, nystatin, major wheldon supplemrnts daily,

Resistance develops by stopping and starting antibioticsi too often.  Nitroimidazoles are not prone to resistance: if they were, pulsing would not be suggested!...................................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

But does the protocol follow the life cycle of borrelia, babesia and bartonella? If not, then these bacteria and others will continue to be able to reproduce.

PPMSi-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpni in birth canal but it didn't pass BBBi until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAPi 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13

It is what I thought Sarah - I need to do chelation for lead and the doc is suggesting that I stop/start the abxi while doing chelation and I told him that I thought that wasn't within the protocol. He disagrees....and O need to get the lead out. Beethoven died of lead poisoning.

I just came back fro Lyme specialist and learned that DOXYi is the preferred treatment for that as far as he is concerned.

Thanks Sarah!

 

For one thing, the antibioticsi used on CAPi are effective against many microbes. If one wouldn't know beforehand what pathogens this CPNi protocol targets, a specialist in tropical diseasesi would say it targets protozoan parasites. Metronidazolei is such a typical antibiotic used against protozoan parasites, but also doxycycline would be of some use, it's used commonly in malaria prophylaxis. Rifampicin is an old tuberculosis drug, but higher doses of it have also been effective in treating cutaneous leishmaniasis, a protozoan disease that as well.

Not sure, if people on this site are right about this chlamydia pneumoniae treatment, the symptoms and the persistencei of the infectionsi reported on this site  are more typical to protozoan parasites. Haven't seen anywhere proof that CPN could cause any of the symptoms mentioned on this board, the protozoans are much larger anyway than the tiny CPN, and they are known to cause a powerful immunei response. Well, one could use some malaria drugs as well and get magnificient die-offs, particularly with the more powerful ones. These are probably not too effective against CPN, or who knows, they could work as well.

Not sure if one can do this better still, properly selected antibiotics will usually work as well as e.g. malaria drugs, or even better.

 

 

No official diagnosis.

Hello pgm,  I reconized your user name from years ago here.  How are you doing with your situation and health?  What are you treating with these days.   I am stable and very much better than when I started CAPi over 7 years ago.  Thought that I would add my off the top of my head comments in regards to this thread and a few to bounce off of your comment.

The beauty of CAP is just as you say, the antibioticsi< used on CAPi< are effective against many microbes.   So this speaks to Artile's topic certainly.   I asked this question early on in my treatment after I was not only documented to have C.Pn. chronic and active phases but also after the initial strong course of Doxyi (400 mg/day) I tested positive for Borellia B. (this approach can be used as a means of causing the immunei system to once again become aware of the presence of Borellia B. or other pathogens as well that are sensitive to the administered abxi.)  The thing about CAP is that it is a moderate approach to clearing cells of chronic persistent intracellulari obigatory bacterial organisms.  The aim is not to cause overwhelming die off because in doing that the patient is laid so low that they become quite incapacitated to function,  often becoming bedridden or if neurologically challenged begin to loose function rapidly as a result.   A moderate approach aims to incapacitate the bacteria, suspend it's animation so to speak, to allow the normal death and replacement of cellular function.  The presence of C.Pn, like organisms inhibits normal turn over of cells as a mode of supporting the replication of the bacteria,  it is an effect that the presence of that organizm has on the cellular metabolism so that it can draw it's life supporting forces from our cells.    So with this combination of ABXi that prevents resistance by confusing the bacteria in how to adapt to the several modes of inhibition using several ABX is a well founded appoach.

This is a ramble and not very consise response to your comments just to add some support to CAP as a treatment for a variety of bacterial organism and in that it is beautiful!     These persistent bacterial infectionsi are much more common than many would want to acknowledge.   It could cause mass hysteria if folks realized that we, like most animals harbor a host of other life forms.  We choose to look the other way to the extent that many folks suffer for years of decline with conditions that could be treated.  This is part of the insurance industries postion of not paying for long term abx if they can in anyway disallow it.   This has happened with Azithro in this state,they will allow short course only and have the infectious disease specialists in their camp to testify for them, I have see this with legistlative battles regarding the access to Lyme treatment here.

But yes,  I believe that CAP taken consitently over time has treated my Lyme effectively and this was DW's position when I asked in those early days of my treatment.   I chose Doxy, Roxi and Tinii and changed out the Roxi for Clarith for a brief period of time.  Did not do Azit as it was not covered by insurance so if I was going to pay out of pocket for my monthly macrolid I chose Roxi as it has preformed well in German studies for effectiveness and passing the BBBi. That was my personal choice and I was fortunately able to do this for myself.

The life cycle of Bb has similarities to C.Pn. both are forced into self protective states by the presence of treats to their welfare.  They are pretty clever lifeforms that is obvious.  And the cystic state of Bb and cryptic state of C.Pn.  both are encapsulations and these encapsulations are distrupted by the presence of the anti-protozoal med such as Metroi and Tini.  And long term treatment is the key because you need to kill enough to start taking down the bacterial loadi (number of bacteria in the body) while allowing the patient to remain functional in their life, hence the practice of periodically taking these two third antibacterial in an intermittant fashion.

Hope this adds another perspective to this question.   This information about chronic persistent bacterial infections is old enought to be contained in my microbiology text which was used in a course that I took two years ago at the college level.  It was an introductory microbiology course and the information regarding the life cycles was there in plain view.   Funny how such learned doctors refuse to believe basic science.  Guess they will all have to die off before some believers come up through the ranks.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

OK so my rheumatologist gave me Plaquenil to take - its is for malaria/protozoa - for what she says is psoriatic arthritis.

I have not taken it so far because the side effects can be brutal, but maybe there is a point there. I wanted some kind of blood test to confirm that diagnosis, but she dismissed me, angry that I am on CAPi!

 

Linda

Who's body is it anyway?

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Yeah I know - sometimesFoot in Mouth they don't like questions

More often than not they don't and I weight and measure which ones I ask as unfortunately one can be judged by the questions that one asks.  And they hold a lot over their clientel.

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Nancy, the life cycle of a micro-organism, whether a bacteria or borrelia, babesia and bartonella else is tiny and can be measured in hours rather than days, weeks, months or years, so taking the abxi on this protocol, unless someone is constantly stopping and restarting it every few days, will be able to deal with it.   

PGM, long time no see or hear: I trust you are now well?.……………………………..Sarah


 

 

 

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I know it's a veeeeery slippery slope

And there it is!!! No stopping and starting

http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/symptoms/tbi-symptoms.html<

http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/symptoms/tbi-symptoms.pdf<

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Artile Your question; 

Isn't it possible that while we use CAPi<i< for c.pn. other pathogens that happen to be in our bodies may develop resistant strains?

Not likely.  More likely that those that are sensitive (respond to treatment with) these abxi will be handled by long term CAP therapy.  Those not responsive to these abxi are not affected by them to start with so they would just continue as they are unless a antibacterial to which those particular organisms are sensitive (treated by.)

And yes you can treat infectionsi that you might not know you have.   CAP is administered in recommended level not subclinical levels like some lesser treatments that have been discussed here (do not even want to mention the name of that). 

And because this is a hypothetical type of question thread,   none of us really knows all the organisms we are carrying in our bodies.    Hopefully we live in peaceful co-existence with them!

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Thank you, Louise and Sarah.

PPMSi-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpni in birth canal but it didn't pass BBBi until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAPi 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13

Chin up, Nancy! .....................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MSi in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I try Sarah, but I'm aging fast. My jaw has disappeared beneath my cheeks and joined my neck. My chin is wrinkled as is my upper lip (in case you were to suggest a stiff upper lip).My hair turned white in Santa fe. I dyed it again and in the dark I don't look so bad -- or sick. Tonight I am using the acupressure again. I only use 6 points so far because they make me so sick. First my hand aches, then my head and then  I get nauseous. I lasted 1 hour on Mon. and then ripped them off, took an ibuprofen and slept like the dead. Next month I will pulse. It is 21 years this month sice the tick attached itself to my calf.

PPMSi-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpni in birth canal but it didn't pass BBBi until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAPi 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13

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