Azithromycin and CFS

Why is it these studies appear to not always ask "all the right questions".   I found this one (done in 2006) on the effects of Azith on CFSi patients.

What's funny is, it was concluded:  "They (the patients) improved only to an estimated maximum of 80% of their premorbid capacity".. hey 80% is pretty good when you've got CFS.  And, this was on 500 mg of Azith for 3 consecutive days for (only)  6 weeks (monotherapy).  Of course, we don't really know how incapacitated  these patients were..... but it doesn't really matter, 80% is pretty significant.

Second point in the conclusion was "there are two explanations for the improvement by azithromycin:  a reduction of bacterial loadi or the immunei modulating effect of macrolides."  I wonder if they pre-tested  for any types of infection???

I don't get what they were actually looking for... just to see if ABXi helped??   Studies like these sure don't get circulated to the doc's do they?  Most physicians don't give Azith to CFS patients to see if it helps them..... they'd rather give antidepressants.

For what it's worth... :)

JeanneRoz

aint that the truth, that is exactly the course of action my "fired" doctor took with me!

 

peace

r

 

CFIDSi/ME, FMSi, MCS, IBSi, EBVi, CMV, Cpni, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplementsi+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyli/day-5 days<

That is very typical that they didn't get more excited about such good results for CFSi from the Azith. Like you said 80% improvement is very good for CFS especially in such a short time frame. But as we all know most doctors have an extreme phobia about using antibioticsi for longer than a couple of weeks let alone for months. Beside the drug companies make more money getting us all hooked on meds.

Same thing happened to me. I recall the first thing my GP wanted to give me was an anti-depressant too. I told the doc..."Look.... I have some sort of infection & toxic overload going on. I don't need an anti-depressant." (This was just from my gut I had not even read about CFS or FM yet.) Doc said to me, "Well, I just can't give you antibiotics not knowing what is wrong with you. It could mask it."  (whatever is really wrong with me) I am eager to get on the Azith. Thanks for sharing this info JeanneRoz!  Slainte!  MM

2002:CFSi. (2008-09:CPNi - CAPi/5 pulses)  3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tinii pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBVi, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic. 

After talking to many in the Lyme community and seeing UNDER OUR SKIN (a must for everyone!) the consensus is that two issues are involved in under treatment of chronic infectionsi in the CFSi/Lyme population: 1. Pressure on MD's from Insurance companies not to treat with long term abxi. Medical Licenses are being revoked at an alarming rate. 2. Fear of Abxi resistant microbes. Just think of all of those misdiagnosed CFS patients out there who may not follow proper treatment protocol or may be undertreated or not properly treated by their MD. We have no new abx in the pipeline right now.
CAPi since 11/06 for Cpni, Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Myco P, CMV, HHV-6 infectionsi. Rifampin 600mg daily, Zithromax 500mg daily. NACi 2250mg daily. All other supplementsi. Now Bicillin LA 2.4 mil injection weekly.
And what % of improvement is gotten on the antidepressant? 10%? 20%? I have to laugh at how readily you can get rx for a very potent brain changing medication like antidepressants which cause all sorts of side effects, and the great hesitation to rx antibioticsi

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Plus undertreatment of an infection leads to only the resistant portion of the bacteria's population to survive. What if the accepted treatment time for tuberculosis was too short to eradicate it?

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazole 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

I'm very interested in knowing why doctors are so bent on prescribing these frightening anti-depressants?  Recently, I was prescribed Cymbalta for pain.  By the 3rd day one of my friends was taking me to the hospital because of it.  Then - after only 3 days on that medicine - after cessation I had on day 4 difficulty breathing - I had to buy an inhaler.  Then beginning day 5 I began getting shooting pains up the back of my head - just 1 shooting pain every 1-2 minutes - although I found they were also initiated whenever I looked side to side.  And I thought "What in the world is this now??"  I did an internet search and found out that there are many, many people out there who experienced these identical experiences after cessation of drugs like Cymbalta.  They call them 'brain zaps'.  I experienced those for over a week.  Day 6 - I went to bed without a black eye but woke up with a black eye.  I really have no doubt this was also a side affect.

The doctor who prescribed this for me didn't even know anything about the side affects that I experienced - and that is very frightening too.  Apparently when you stop the med you are supposed to follow a very specific tapering schedule.

But anyway.. For pain whatever happened to good old morphine, and for anxiety and depression whatever happened to good old Valium??  I've never heard these types of horror stories regarding these tried and true standby's.  And they are all 'addictive' but what is more dangerous regarding addiction - a pill that you can take on occasion on an as-needed basis or a pill which requires you to take it every single day?

Kelly

Diagnosed FMSi Feb '07.  2x/day: 600 mg NACi, 100 mg Doxyi, 500 mg Amoxicillini, 2000 iu Vit. D.  450 mg Valcyte.  250 mg Azi M/W/F.  500 mg 375 mg Flagyli pulses every 3-4 weeks.  Started CAPi June '07. 

Kelly- my experience as a mental health professional is that the large majority of people tolerate the antidepressants like Cymbalta okay, and it can really help with pain problems. But doctors have to be knowledgeable about side effects or reactions that can happen and how to taper off them, and a lot of GP's are not. "Good old morphine" and Valium had lots of good old addiction and were widely abused because many people did not use them only as needed, or the need increased quickly (tolerance). I'd hate to go back to those days in my profession. The modern antidepressants are not addictive although they are  overused.

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Jim, I understand your point.  I was really referring to your comment "And what % of improvement is gotten on the antidepressant? 10%? 20%? I have to laugh at how readily you can get rx for a very potent brain changing medication like antidepressants which cause all sorts of side effects, and the great hesitation to rx antibioticsi" but instead referring to Morphine/Valium in place of rx antibiotics as yet another 'great hesitation'.. 

I just really think there are a lot of others like me who have extreme difficulty with these new 'very potent brain changing" meds, ditto most pain meds, and feel there's maybe too much hesitation and resistance to trying the old standby's - particularly when it's an individual who in addition to having unfavorable reactions to so many of the newer pain pills - would not require daily use of those meds.  So in lieu of having occasional access to something that will truly help, but can be addictive, the preference today is to push the daily use of these SSRI's whose alleged (potential) side affects are downright frightening (Virginia Tech massacre, suicides), and whose long-term side affects aren't even known yet.

But again I do understand your point about abuses of morphine and valium in the past.  However - there were abuses of cold and sinus meds too - maybe there are other ways to at least limit if not prevent addictions or abuse i.e. strict limits on the quantities that can be prescribed or given per month to an individual, and a central tracking system to ensure that that quantity is not surpassed.

Kelly

Diagnosed FMSi Feb '07.  2x/day: 600 mg NACi, 100 mg Doxyi, 500 mg Amoxicillini, 2000 iu Vit. D.  450 mg Valcyte.  250 mg Azi M/W/F.  500 mg 375 mg Flagyli pulses every 3-4 weeks.  Started CAPi June '07. 

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