apoptosis or ???

Over the last two week, before my last pulse, and up to today I've been having some pain in my back and abdomen.  It's in the middle of my back and wrap around the oblique on the right side to the front.  It isn't continuous, sometimes its worse, sometimes its better.  At times, the pain is mainly in the back while at other times, it's both front and back.

I've been chalking up the pain to over exertion at the gym.  I thought maybe I strained a back muscle or group of muscles.  I still haven't given up on that idea; however, I'm wondering if maybe apoptosisi is what is really happening, I don't know.  It's been suggested that it could be a problem with my gall bladder, so the possibilities are endless.

Needless to say, I continue the CAPi and pay close attention to what my body is doing.  I will go see a doctor ASAP should it not begin to recede.  I think over this weekend it has a little bit, but not as much as I would like it to.

Of course, there is a concern in the back of my head about liver problems, which I would think were more likely than gall bladder problems.  But again, it's all up in the air.

So, if anyone has any ideas about how I can narrow down the possibilities, short of seeing a physician, which I will do eventually if necessary, I'd appreciate any input you might provide.

many thanks

John

One possibility could be the protocol is getting to infected joint areas in the vertebrae or the rib attachments. If you've had any history of back pain in that area it might indicate a focal area of infection, perhaps set in from injury and then infected macrophages coming to the site for repair. I've had lumbar and sacroilliac pain flare up hugely from the CAPi early on, and especially from pulses. At times it caused such muscle spasm that I could barely move. More recent pulses initiated only mild twinges in these places, but on continuous protocol I've had flareup again, indicating that this joint infection requires higher concentrations to get into deeper tissue layers.

I'm glad, though, that you will see your doc if they don't dissipate, as the closeness to organs makes this harder to sort out than my more specific back locations. 

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFSi & FMSi- Currently: 150mg INHi, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 500mg Tinii daily (Continuous protocol)

 

CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Jim               

Thanks for the ideas.  That was something that had crossed my mind.  I wonder if there is a corresponding increase in inflammationi when something like that happens.  It would explain the tightness and difficulty taking a deep breath that's come along with it. 

all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, now 4.??? on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006

best, John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, 6, 6.5, 6.9999, 6.5 on Wheldon/Stratton Protocol beginning 04/12/2006
naci 4x600 mg/day
doxycycline 2x100mg/day
azithromycin 3x250mg/day MWF
metronidazolei 3x400mg/day then 3x500mg/day

It's tiiiiiiime.......aren't you the lucky one!

 

Rica PPMSi  EDSSi 6.7 at beginning - now 2.  Began CAPi Sept, 2004 with Rifampin 150 mg 2xd, Doxyi 100 mg 2xd, added regular pulses Jan 2005. Jan 2006 switched to Doxy, Azith,  cont. flagyli  total 42 pulses NC USA

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

John I don't know whether this will be any help but this is what happened to me........  a few weeks ago I had a pain in the same place, a kind of tight squeezing ache like I'd tried to swallow a tennis ball and it had got stuck in the middle of me causing a pain all around from front to back, waxing and waning but never quite going away.

 A few years ago an attack of biliary colic was followed up with a scan, sure enough it showed gallstones but I didn't want the operation and hadn't had any trouble since then . I'm not the typical gallstone patient, I'm thin and never get indigestion or sick with fatty foods but after having the pain for about two weeks this time I had another attack of colic......aaarrrghhhh how I wished that gallbladder had been taken out!

I don't attibute everything to die-off but something about this 'attack' made me wonder, why should it suddenly happen again just after I'd started continuous tinii after years of no problems?   It's always possible that a stone had gone through as once it stopped everything was fine again but something felt different this time.

This might sound odd but how are your eyes?  I did a search on here because I remembered someone mentioning that gall bladder problems were common and found this

http://www.cpnhelp.org/eye_issues_questions<

Why should gall bladder problems have anything to do with the eyes, this got my interest because before the attack I'd noticed something very odd about my eyes, the side of my vision was weird,  fuzzy, strange and nothing would keep still, during the attack I felt so bad that I can't remember what my eyes were like but afterwards my sight was fine again, the pain had gone and I felt quite good....well anything would feel good after that pain! 

I wasn't too surprised to discover that in chinese medicine the eyes are on the gall bladder meridian,  my two problems definitely were connected and this would explain it......strange maybe but i'm doing the exercises and hoping something has healed

http://www.bodynbrain.com/01_magazine/news_view.asp?SeqNO=122<

I hope you soon feel better.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpn and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Oh yes and I found this too, not sure about the source but it seems to make sense

http://fattyacids.wordpress.com/2006/09/09/biotoxins-are-neurotoxins/<

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Hi John & Elinor,

FYI, I just posted on a recent porphyria thread< some information about porphyrins in Enterohepatic circulation, and from what I understand the gall bladder comes into play in this circulation:

Secretion of Bile and the Role of Bile Acids In Digestion<

I'm not sure I completely understand this concept nor am I certain it's pertinent in your cases, but I thought you might be interested. Maybe someone else might be able to better explain how porphyrins might affect this area...

Hang in there...


On Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Cpni in Rosaceai since 01/06

Treatment for Rosaceai<

  • CAPi:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NACi:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

I did a little more googling, and found that this site mentions that " Some forms of porphyriai may lead to gallstones" and wasn't aware of this before:

UofIMedicalCenter: porphyria<

Again, not certain how pertinent this is for you, but possibly it is something to discuss with your doctor... 

On Combined Antibiotic Protocol for Cpni in Rosaceai since 01/06

Treatment for Rosaceai<

  • CAPi:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NACi:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

OOOhh I just love it, seems I have Wood Disease

http://www.alchemycalpages.com/heal5.html<

   'The important point to grasp is during the Wood Season(Spring) the atmospheric chi/etheric dynamics are focused (obviously ALL the states of Transformation of chi/etheric forces are active all year round) on the liver and gall bladder and those tissues and senses related to them in such a way that they are being strengthened, cleansed and harmonized in their structure and activities'

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAPi, doxyi/roxi/tini  for ME/CFSi/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpni and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

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