Anyone for lower blood pressure?

For the past three weeks I have been trying out Inclined Bed Therapy (IT)<, it started out as an experiment because I do not like to recommend anything to Ella that I do not understand or experience.  IT does not cost anything, is unlikely to hurt you and may well help MSi symptom, arthritis, oedema and a host of other personal conditions.  

All I can vouch for is that my blood pressure has come down quite dramatically in the past week, from 145/90 with medication, to 120/65 with medication.   If it  continues dropping in the near future I am going to have to go and see my doctor to consult about either coming off it or finding something less potent.

Andrew Fletcher who came up with this therapy says that according tohis pilot study benefits are most likely to start showing up after a month of elevation and continue to manifest for as long as you continue to use it.   If you get benefits from this then you will have to continue using the technique or you will revert back to your previous condition.

In practice I hardly noticed the change, especially when laying down.  I don't get up as often at night, it seems to be having an beneficial effect on my back bone and hip joints and even (I think) of my peripheral neuropathy, but it is too soon to tell about that really.

Ella being rather stubborn has not taken up the suggestion (although I did incline her bed when she came home for Christmas) so I cannot say what effect it has had on her for the MS symptoms, but I have heard of others who have reported lessening of spasms, less fatigue and more energy.  It does not happen overnight, although less visits to the loo often happens quite quickly, and in the beginning you may experience some neck stiffness and other strange symptoms but these seem to disappear within a week.   They did for me...

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We started one week ago,

We started one week ago, primarily to see if it helps with my wife's blood pressure and vericose veins.

 

There's been a bit of adjustment, but it's coming along. I think I'm seeing better sleep than I have seen in quite a while the last couple of days. Nothing real notable beyond that, but it's only been 9 days.

CAPi started 10/09 - Doxyi 200mg, Azith 250 MWF, 1 Flagyli pulse. Empirical CAP on suspicion of CPni or tick-borne infection. Primary symptoms are chronic sore throat, muscle pain (jaw, neck, trapezius, all on right side), rosaceai, joint pain.

Hi Michele, It has been

Hi Michele, It has been about 3 weeks now since I started IT and so far I continue to feel positive about this sleeping angle.  I have continued to sleep more soundly in general however external forces, extreme windy conditions, others moving about in the house, driveway alarm during snow plow removal all have had me awake on several occasions.  What I can say is that even with waking getting back to sleep has been reasonably quickly which is wonderful.  

I am wondering how you are doing and if you are continuing IT? 

How about the others here who said that they have given this a try, how is is going for you folks?

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
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Michele, what is your

Michele, what is your current morning baseline BP at this point?

Suzanne, For me the postion is comfortable, it has been 10 nights now and all the mild stiffness, that many talk about, in the neck is gone. My energy is good and no nighttime waking for bathroom trips, this solid sleep is worth it. The best answer is when you can read your way through the posts at the links that Michele provided to see what people are noticing that they are getting relief from is regards to your headaches. I would not think this would replace CPni just another adjunct if chosen. Google Bed,Bath and Beyond Bed Risers to see what there is on the market for premade risers. Walmart has them, target, try your local big box stores on line to see if they carry them, someplace must. Or blocks or phonebooks etc. Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
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This is fascinating- Micele

This is fascinating- Micele and opthers- I have never heard of this....If IT worked for migraines I think I would need to race out to the hardware tomorrow ...I need to read more about this....I expect my migraines are part of my inflammationi to do with infection...when infection is more controlled then migraines are more controlled or so it has worked in the past.

Any thoughts on this therapy and headaches and migrain symptoms?

Suzanne

FMSi/ME dxi 2001. Started Wheldon Protocol 16 Jan. '10. Mino 100mg q 24 h. Roxyi 150mg q 12h. Cholestyramine, LDNi 0.75mg q 24 h. prophylactic migraine-topamax 75mg q 24h. migraines, headache, fatigue, sleep problems, body aches

If my blood pressure falls

If my blood pressure falls to something I recognise as being too low for me, I will take myself to the doctor to have a chat.   Not before the 6 weeks are up at the end of January.

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

That's why I am not the best

That's why I am not the best of candidates to bring any quantifiable results to the discussion of IT, but for myself, I really am only after the better sleep and less need to get out of bed which leads to a greater tendency to disturbed sleep by leading to a period of middle of the night wakefulness some of the time.    I am also hoping for an improved sleep for my partner whose restlessness does not disturb him but can disturb me and who also does not have any remarkable elevations or varicosities.   

It will be worth the postion for me if a longer solid length of sleep can be more consistent. In my experience of CFSi disturbed sleep happened early on with the escalation of the illness for me.  I am much improved with CAPi treatment but I still have nights from time to time.

I do hope that some of the others here who have started will have more concrete observatons from their other conditions to share.   

I have looked through some of the the posts a second time and and of the conditions that I have seen discussed as I read, I have none, except for the desire for sounder sleeping, which for me feels like the major one to go for in my application of Inclined Therapy.   I got 7.5 hrs of straight through sleep last night, which is perfect for me!  

I'm glad that you shared the concept and that there are several of us that have joined you.  How long are you going to wait before talking about your BP improvements with your Provider?

So far for my needs more solid sleep looks subjectively promising for me. 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

I think what you need to

I think what you need to look for is an improvement in any symptom that bothers you. Obviously not everything will be put right but the variety is quite surprising.  A Fletcher does not really know all the ailments that could improve this depends a lot on the individuals. What he can say is what you have already observed, better sleer lessneed to go to the bathroom at night.  I started not knowing what to expect, but noticed that in addition to better sleep, my BP went down.  It does not go down for everyone and it does not go down straight away.  I don't have visible varicose veins but I do have issues of circulation in my legs and lower abdomen, and I think there is some improvement there but these changes are so subtle that you need the benefit of time to know if it is happening for real or just your imagination...

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Michele, My BP is AOK it

Michele, My BP is AOK it amazes those who take it for a variety of reasons, so that is not something to track.  

Any other suggiestions?  

I looked through some of the posts but beyond sleep, energy, and decreased nocturnal urine frequency I'm not sure what to look at.   I have occasional low back allignment issues that are intermittent so nothing regular to compare with.   

And yes a good nights sleep is worth a lot to me, especially if it allow me to rise early with a clear mind.  I am looking forward to tomorrow morning to see what tonight brings.

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Let's hope that you see some

Let's hope that you see some real quantifiable results... But even good night's sleep is worth a lot.

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Michele, Night 6 completed,

Michele, Night 6 completed, a full 8 hours and no getting up to the loo, and I also slept all the way through the night, not even any brief waking periods.  Last night was my second night with my bed propped with the Bed Risers (www.bedbathandbeyond.com< variety), the other 4 nights were on a graduated pile of pillows.  You were right, I hardly noticed with the substitution of the bedrisers (bedlifts) that there was an elevation, the use of the pillows to create the incline was a bit more obvious to me, but once I started to se them I preferred it to being flat.  The first several nights I did have some minor and very brief neck stiffness but that has gone now, none upon awakening.

I am going to keep track of my nightime trips to the loo over the next month and see if the change continues as occurs more often than not.   My BP is on the lower side so that change may not be something that I could track.  I have a few very mild vericosities that hardly bulge.  I can say I have felt more rested in the mornings, easier transition to wakefulness.

Looking for forward to everyone's periodic reports!   Louise 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Well, it will be interesting

Well, it will be interesting to see what transpires.   I seem to be having good effects in my legs so it will be interesting to see all the different symptoms that may improve in those that are trying it out.   The good thing about BP is that you can be fairly objective about it, the numbers can be compared... with my legs and feet it is just an impression at the moment.   But I live in hope.

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Michèle, I put phone books

Michèle, I put phone books under my bed legs to try this out. My blood pressure is fine, but I have mild esophageal reflux. 

I've been having back problems since July after dragging felled trees. (I thought I was a draft horse.) My back is better this morning, but one night isn't a sufficient test. I'll post back in a month if this seems to stretch my back out.

I have varicose veins, and this seems the opposite of what I should do, but we'll see. I have tinnitis, and it seems like my ears are hearing something real. Maybe it is the blood flowing inside my head. Thanks for posting this info.

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazolei 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitisi (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

Hi Louise, I'll keep you

Hi Louise, I'll keep you posted.   Blood pressure steady at 120/65 or there abouts at the moment, hoping for lower so I can come off the meds.

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

Michele, I tried pillows

Michele, I tried pillows last night.  I will get the Bed Risers this week locally at the store  (BedBathandBeyond.com and in their stores have two heights and I will take a look and choose, the $7.99 BedLifts themselves give a rise of 5 1/4 inch, the $14.98 Bedlifts give a rise of 7 inches), 

I may start with the 5 1/4 inch option first and see how that feels first.  I got up during the night and decided to see if I could possibly work with pillows, I took them from various spaces throughout the house and various types of pillows,  I went back to sleep amazingly fast and feel quite clear this morning.   I'll start out the night with the pillows tonight and see how it goes, and if I might not need to get up at all.   I immediately noticed that breathing seemed somehow easier, not that I would say that I have had any trouble, it was just an immediate observation.    My neck was a little stiff but brief and was over after moving position of my head.  I think I may be able to sleep on my back as well as my sides in this position at least with the pillow approach, which I think may get old very fast.  If one had enough blankets under the mattress ( and it would take many) I think that could be done, however lifting the bed seems to be the easiest solution in my situation. 

Michelle, I'll check back as I progress in experimenting with the Inclined Bed Therapy sleep position.   If all I gain is not getting up to the loo and sleeping through most nights, that alone will be worth change in the appearance of the bed on a slope!  I do hope to hear more about your personal observations and responses with IT (IBT, Inclined Bed Therapy).    Louise  

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

Looked online. It looks

Looked online. It looks like those risers only work on beds with legs. I have a wooden platform style bed that with a flat wooden bottom that rests on the floor. Looks like I would need two long planks or two phone books. If anyone has any ideas let me know!
CAPi since 11/06 for Cpni, Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Myco P, CMV, HHV-6 infectionsi. Rifampin 600mg daily, Zithromax 500mg daily. NACi 2250mg daily. All other supplementsi. Now Bicillin LA 2.4 mil injection weekly.

Thanks Louise. I have one

Thanks Louise. I have one of those all wood sustainable bedframes where the mattress rests on wooden planks inside the bedframe. I guess I will have to go for the bed risers or blocks. Wonder if it will slide off all the time with my girl and I making mischief ; )
CAPi since 11/06 for Cpni, Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Myco P, CMV, HHV-6 infectionsi. Rifampin 600mg daily, Zithromax 500mg daily. NACi 2250mg daily. All other supplementsi. Now Bicillin LA 2.4 mil injection weekly.

Chris, If you have a box

Chris, If you have a box spring you might look at elevating that within the bedframe depending on the construction. 

Also there are Bed Risers.  Bed, Bath and Beyond has two heights one elevates 5 1/4 inches and the other 7 inches.  Target has another brand which elevates 5 1/4 inches.  There are lots of these out there in many stores.   Google Bed Risers and you will soon see the selection.     Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <

This is fascinating. Thanks

This is fascinating. Thanks for posting. It may also really help my reflux. Now I just have to figure out how to elevate my wooden bed frame six inches without ruining it!
CAPi since 11/06 for Cpni, Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Myco P, CMV, HHV-6 infectionsi. Rifampin 600mg daily, Zithromax 500mg daily. NACi 2250mg daily. All other supplementsi. Now Bicillin LA 2.4 mil injection weekly.

It certainly seems harmless

It certainly seems harmless enough. And yes, as always, when the reasoning given for some treatment is bogus, it doesn't mean that the treatment itself doesn't work.

Maybe Norman, but I measure

Maybe Norman, but I measure my blood pressure at home, no doctor in sight, and I have been taking my blood pressure like this for years, since it started creeping up.   Whatever salt water does or does not do makes no difference to me.   IT has made more difference to me than any of the medications that I have taken for HBP for 10 years and what has anyone to lose by giving IT a go.

Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.

I stopped reading when I got

I stopped reading when I got to Fletcher's experiment< with salt water and fresh water in a tube. That's just ridiculous on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.

As for blood pressure, that's notoriously dependent on the state of mind of the person being measured. There's a story I've heard of Franklin Delano Roosevelt having his blood pressure measured, then, after a short telephone exchange with his wife, having it measured again ... whereupon the second reading was a hundred points higher than the first. (The good news is, though, that this means the lower measurements are the more trustworthy ones; higher ones often merely reflect the anxiety of being in the doctor's office.)

Michele, I followed your

Michele, I followed your link and am interested in this concept.  Thank you for posting this info and link to Inclined Bed Therapy. I will likly give it a try. 

I have read much of the information from the IT website, the posts go back quite a length of time.  This is the first that I have heard about this application of this sleep position, I have heard of it for cardiac and respiratory dificulties.   Your BP drop in three weeks seems remarkable and and as you say it is a low cost adjunct. 

I will be interested in your comments over time regarding your back and hip complaints as well as your peripheral neuropathy.  Sleeping longer stretches without getting up at night is a plus certainly. 

Thanks for sharing your experience,    Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi<
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
  • <