Anemia and copper

My Red Blood Cell count has been borderline low for a long time. When I was first tested when I started the abxi protocol a couple years ago my RBC was just below normal range. I think it was about 3.76 (ref 3.8-5.10 Million/uL). My B12 and folate">i tested good. My ferritin was a little low but not dire. I started taking an iron/folate/B12 supplement. In a few months the ferritin went up to good levels but the RBC stayed borderline, just inside normal. For the 2 years I've continued taking the supplementsi but my RBC has remained low, hovering around 3.90, never really budging much.

Recently I read something in an article about anemia present with normal ferritin levels. It said something about copper being necessary for the blood cells to take in the iron and, no matter how much iron is present, if there is insufficient copper, one can still be anemic because the cells are unable to absorb the iron. I added a simple 100% RDA copper supplement to my stack of daily pills and, within just a couple months, my RBC has jumped to 4.14! Maybe not a huge increase, but the most it's moved in 2 years, and a significant increase for just a 2 month period. Since I've only been taking the copper a short time I'm hoping the RBC will continue to climb a bit more over the next few months.

One thing that can cause low copper is zinc since it interferes with copper absorption. I know a lot of us probably take lots of zinc for immunei support. So if you're struggling with low RBC you might want to try a little copper. Not much, though! Be careful of copper toxicity (and it doesn't take a whole lot of copper to become toxic). Slow and steady is the safer way to go.

Comments

Interesting. My doc just

Interesting. My doc just told me now that she's found this copper test she's finding other cpni patients with low copper (she didn't mention if they also had low RBC, though). Makes me wonder about that aortic aneurysm post too. Since low copper increases one's risk of aneurysm by weakening blood vessel walls I wonder if there's some connection between cpn, low copper, and heart diseasei. Perhaps cpn uses up copper or prevents its absorption and that is one of the mechanisms by which it contributes to heart disease.

I am taking zinc in my

I am taking zinc in my multi-vitamin but it's only 100% DV, not excess. Maybe I'm getting more somewhere I don't know about, like the hair products. What kinds of hair products have zinc?

Sunni, I had a hair analysis

Sunni, I had a hair analysis test done and it revealed a low copper result. I was taking zink suppliments and was informed that the two minerals balance eachother, so if your over the limit in zink it can lower your copper.

It is just a thought to look into. Also, watch the ingrediants in certain hair products as they can contribute to added zink amounts obsorbed in the body.

started Wheldon capi 4/21/08 for Cpni, CMV, EBVi, CFSi. Cap hold 4/09vascultis. Restart 9/09 with Dr.Powell, restore gut, 4000 D3, supplementsi,  Pos. Bartonella and Babesia, Rifampin 600 mgs and Biaxon 1 gram. 

So, my doctor found a copper

So, my doctor found a copper blood test, "RBC, Copper" and tested me several weeks ago. It turned out I am copper deficient. I don't have the results in front of me but I think I was about 0.4 (0.53-0.77). Besides the fact that I have been taking a multi-vitamin/mineral forever which contains 2mg copper (100% DV) I started taking an additional separate 2mg copper supplement. Several weeks later we tested again and my copper levels have not budged one tiny bit. GRRR. No idea if, like vitamin Di, I just need to take way more than the DV or if I need another form of copper. I sure would like to see it go up as it could be related to all these issues I have:

 Low red blood cell count

Impaired thyroid function

Fatigue, low stamina

Low back pain

Tendonitis

Wacky blood pressure

Reduced immunei function/chronic infection

 

I'm curious, anyone else here had a copper blood test?

It's hard enough to deal with this Cpni stuff without having to fight frustrating battles with nutritional deficiencies. 

I grow so weary of it all sometimes.

 

Hi Sunni,  Their is a hair

Hi Sunni,  Their is a hair element test you can order for a mineral profile. Many of us who are on chelation therapy are taking mineral supplementsi and checking our mineral profile by testing. 

I received my test through my doctor, and will be taking the test soon. It requires cutting a small amount of hair around the base of the neck. The test is from," Doctor's Data ".

Feel better, and I hope this is helpful.

 

Bonnie

started Wheldon capi 4/21/08 for Cpni, CMV, EBVi, CFSi. Cap hold 4/09vascultis. Restart 9/09 with Dr.Powell, restore gut, 4000 D3, supplementsi,  Pos. Bartonella and Babesia, Rifampin 600 mgs and Biaxon 1 gram. 

Darn it. I cut down on the

Darn it. I cut down on the copper and my last labs show my RBC is back down to 3.95. Disappointingly low. And I definitely feel it. No matter how much I exercise my stamina never seems to improve much.

I had cut back because I kept reading articles about how the vast majority of Americans get too much copper and this can seriously increase your chances of developing Alzheimer's. And, apparently, it doesn't take much copper to get too much. So it kind of worried me to supplement it.

So now I'm not sure if I should start taking it again. I have "symptoms" of both low and excess copper, if you go by general symptoms like fatigue, headache, etc, that can be caused by a thousand other things. So the symptom chart is not helpful in determining whether I need more or less.

If you're averse to liver,

If you're averse to liver, as many people are, here are some other good sources of copper.

oysters

spirulina

shiitake mushrooms

soy flour

sesame seeds

cocoa powder

cashews

sunflower seeds

walnuts

(I looked these up on nutritiondata.com. It's a great site with tools for looking up specific nutrients, among other things like glycemic index and inflammationi factor. If you're not already familiar with that site, have a look.) 

Interestingly, I used to crave nuts and seeds a lot. Those cravings have diminished since I started taking copper supplementsi. Now I see why.

 

Hi - Just a note on the

Hi - Just a note on the copper, an extremely important nutrient (deficiency is a major cause of atherosclerosis and other conditions).  I am taking 50 mg/day zinc plus a multivitamin.  For copper along with the multivitamin I eat a quarter-pound of liver once per week.  Beef liver is best but we sometimes buy pork liver at a local Chinese grocery. We get a 2 lb package and cut it into eighths, freeze 7, and eat the eighths once a week. (I end up eating most of it.) Liver has a lot of nutrients especially copper, but don't eat too much because of vitamin A and potentially copper toxicity.
Blogger at http://perfecthealthdiet.com<. 17-year chronic illness cured with diet and antibioticsi, nearly fully recovered.

Jeanne, my doc said she was

Jeanne, my doc said she was prescribing me natural dessicated thyroid, like Armour, because I'd been having trouble tolerating the synthetic. I would hope it was specified on the prescription and the pharmacy wouldn't add synthetics. The pharmacist did tell me he used a rice fiber filler because it interfered less with absorption than the usual fillers ... although now I forget what he said the "usual fillers" were. Not sure whether it was porcine or bovine. Do you find one works better than the other?

 

Sunni, I'm sure your med's

Sunni, I'm sure your med's are fine... I'm just very sensitive to fillers and synthetic's so I pretty much question everything before I take it.    I have never used "bovine" thryoid, it's always been porcine. Smile

But,  if you do notice any weird reactions you might want to keep it in mind.

 

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

My thyroid prescription just

My thyroid prescription just says "Thyroid USP" capsules and is compounded by a local pharmacy. No idea where the ingredients come from.

Sunni, for me,

Sunni, for me, personally, not knowing what was in it  would be somewhat scarey; i.e., is the capsule bovine or porcine thyroid or is it synthetic? What fillers do they use?   That's just me, though.  I guess I have a higher sensitivity level, due to my lack of a thryoid gland; but, if it works for you I'm glad it's available  through your compounding pharmacy. 

 When I inquired with my local compounding pharmacy they advised me they use "synthetic thyroid" in their mix (sounding too much like T4 to me even though they said it wasn't) I knew better than to even try it so I declined their formula.

Hope it works for you.

JeanneRoz

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Copper deficienty can be a

Copper deficienty can be a major, serious problem in goats, and probably many other creatures.  You are correct in going slowly and, mostly, not over-doing.   When we discovered that it was such a problem we changed their ever-present and ever-accessable mineral.  Selenium deficienty is also a major problem, but is only VERY cautiously increased in feed because it can be so toxic.  But the manufacturers have been too cautious sometimes - kind of like doctors with Vit D and some other things.  We supplement the goats every year before kidding season with Vitamin E / Selenium shots, but no copper boluses.

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Hey Jeanne, I noticed in

Hey Jeanne, I noticed in your sig you crossed out Armour and have ERFA Thyroid instead. What's ERFA? My doc just switched me from Cytomel (was not taking any T4 the last few months) to a generic version of Armour. Was there a reason you stopped the Armour?

Hi, Sunnni  -- for about 11

Hi, Sunnni  -- for about 11 years I had No problems with Armour until they reformulated it last year.  I, along with 1,,000's of other thyroid patients who had used it for years, were unable to tolerate the formula change they made.  It made many go hypo, heart palpitations, feeling poisened and other symptoms.

Forest  created a mess for 1,000's of patients who depended on Armour.... many of whom had to switch to Nature-Throid, which then created a shortage of THAT for all.  I tried Nature-Throid but it wasn't giving me what I needed to feel well.

I am taking "Canadian" Armour Thyroid ( mfg by the Erfa company" basically natural dessicated thyroid), it is by script provided by my doctor and I do get it from a pharmacy in Canada.  It is very similar to the "old" Armour Thyroid and can be taken sublingually (which many of us natural thyroid die-hards do!)

I'm curious what does your doctor have you on?

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Sunnni, this is

Sunnni, this is interesting... It may also play into the thryoid aspect because adequate Ferritin is definitely needed to get the Thyroid into the cells as well!

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi<; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni