Activity of azithromycin, clarithromycin, roxithromycin,

I'm not sure how the Legionella species compares with C. pneumoniae, but thought this might be interesting to post.

http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/41/2/289

 

Hi Jeanneroz, I sure would like to have a stronger background in Microbiology. I was scouting around this morning regarding gram negative catigory of bacteria due to lifeontheIce's comment to me recently.  Still clari is a favorite of LLMDs and is licensed here in US and well covered by my insurance so I will be using it for now.   Still Roxi is my macrolide of choice so information regarding it's efficacy is always of interest to me.

 I also find it amazing when you can actually download complete articles without being asked to pay for them as in this case.  You are an amazing internet sleuth!

I do so wish that Roxi were easily available in theUS.  And I find it of interest that this research has Brits and US researchers sited since in both of these countries the use of Roxi is not easily available.

I'm finally going onto Clari after my next monthly liver enzyme blood draw that will be in about another 10 days and will have my interlude for liver resusitation by that time at about 8 months.   I know that clari is challenging for the liver to detox so we will see.  It took some really straight talk to my provider, ie reminding that I have signed a release for treatment (I hold him harmless for results of the abxi protocolsi).   He started in with some bla bla bla and then finally blurted it out, he didn't want to be challenged around rx the CAPi to me (with still elevated enzymes, yet not much more elevate than many folks on statins and yet they continue their daily dosing regimens).

I came away with Rxs in hand and a requesition for monthly enzyme draws to follow myself closely.   And a new combination support supplement AdvaClear-it is a Metgenics product. Advanced Support for Detoxification.  One capsule, one to three times daily.   I am already taking just about everything on the label in one form or another.  I will really have to give the totals strong look and see how it all compares to the total I take now with my multitude of capsules taken each day.   Still I want to be cooperative and open to his suggestions so.....   

OK this is well of track of this post but since there have been no other responses I just chattered on and on.   

I hope you are doing weller and weller now.   Sure would enjoy a catchup blog from you.    I will be doing one soon with all the details of my labs and my experience of intermittent with Clari/Doxyi/Tinii pulses.  I am thinking 14 - 21 days on and 21 to 28 days off to start with tini in the middle and some time on the two others at the end to catch any Borrelia that may be activated from the pulse.  Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise,

Thanks for your update in my post... seems you have your health care and doc  in control  Wink 

 Yes, I definitely need to do a blog ... um, not doing "weller and weller".  (Actually been in bed week  with my semi annual (went back and was reading my previous blogs) SEVERE bronchitis (even daily Tinii didn't help).

I used AdvaClear by Metagenics in the past (early 2000) per my holistic doctor back in IA so perhaps it will be beneficial for you...

JeanneRoz

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Jeanneroz,  Do you suspect a seasonal allergic component?  Are the events in the same seasons? Is the nebulizer helping this time keeping it from getting to much out of control?   Sorry to hear about the bronchitis event. 

I suppose the AdvaClear could make a difference but the ingredients are much the same as my assortment already.   Maybe I will stop most of what I am taking for the next 10 days and hit the Advaclear 6 caps a day and see what I get for an enzyme reading.  I'm going to get one more draw before the next intermittent cycle.  I am also thinking of seeing a gastro-enterologist and get my Hepato-billiary system worked up again.  My abxi provider is very against cholecystectomy but if it is causing some of my elevations and elevated alk phos is indicative of this and I have that too.   The last several workups looked only at my liver and avoided my GB and lower biliary tract, I could have a partial obstruction, it is possible and still not be jaundiced!   He did give me a name in August of one that he likes to work with.  I have avoided getting the GB out for the past 30 years and have done will until now that is with these elevated liver enzymes 7 month of abxi reversal should have been more dramatic.   My copay is done for the year so it would be a good time to have a consult.  Seems we all have winding road along this journey.  

What is your provider suggesting for the bronchitis this time around?  Louise 

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Hi, Louise,

Inhaler's, Nasocort and nebulizers did little  for me, benedryl helped initially..... my chest was very painful and I could barely move.  I felt as if I had been hit by a truck.  Even today, I am still weak when I move too quickly, but am out of bed (and this isn't post-pulse type reactions)

Perhaps some of this could be seasonally related (we also do live in one of the "top 10 worst" areas in the US for allergies)  it started with a running nose and watery itching eyes, but it is hard to differentiate as I was also a week or so post pulse.  Last year this happened in Nov and again in Jan of this year... so it doesn't really appear to be seasonal.

I didn't consult my doc.....(he is now imppossible to get an appointment with [I do have my monthly appts set up through the end of the year, though]  instead relied on my ABXi arsenal. I started taking Tinii 500 mg/day for another 3 days... then yesterday I took 500 mg of Azith and am continuing it as if I were on a Z-Pak (but will keep with my ABXi schedule) and it seemed to help quite a bit.

I truly believe this is a cyclical build up of CPNi... due to my taking hydrocortisone... just a theory related to my observations and notes. 

I hope you GB is not blocked.... something is still awry though.  Louise, what is the possibility of the Bb being the culprit of your liver enzyme issue?  I know you always mention the CPN being the problem, but I thought I read in Dr. Burrescano's info on lyme treatment that the lyme hits the liver as well?? Just curious on your thoughts about that since your blogs don't really mention the lyme correlated to the liver issue.  Not sure if knowing would make any difference?

JeanneRoz

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Jeanne, Regardless of the bacterial pathogen the bottom line is that the elevations were a result of prescribed agressive abxi monotherapy initially upon dxi of CPni and  prior to my knowledge of this CAPi and my backing off to the reasonable levels of this CAP. after 4 months, did not change the established pattern, it  still challenged the detoxification capabilities of my liver.   I mention CPn in specific because DW has advised me that the liver cells are a favorite target of CPn.   Hence the stratagy here of taking NACi and other supplementsi on his list of suggestions to help prevent this type of resulting reaction to the CAP.   My lyme specific marker has improved considerably.  And neither infection in itself without treatment causes enzyme elevations they occur as a result of treatment modalities.

I would wonder if you have some possibility of other bacterial or protozoan infectionsi, such as the group of tick transmitted illnesses, some of which have repiratiory components.  Since I don't seem t have these, testing negative for some of them that can be tested forand not having the group of symptom complaints that suggest them, I couldn't really think well about this in regard to your situation as it would require a lot of research that I am not current with and research that perhaps you have already done for yourself.  

You are certainly in a very specific situation and less common occurence with the surgical lack of your thyroid.   I know that you keep well informed about anything that relates to that condition for yourself, it is definitely a complicating factor in each decision you make.  Often what works for me cannot be translated as working for you, I realized that some time ago.  I am glad that you have such a cooperative doctor to work with you monthly that is a real plus.

Each of us have our own subset of co-existing conditions or challenges that can factor in to potential treatments, you have had more than your fair share of difficulties with medications and supplementsi that work for others yet challenge you and make you feel ill and disturb your balance.  You do a remarkable job of keeping all your exceptions and specifics straight and on track, well done!  

Here's hoping that your increased level of azithro will clear your current situation.  Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise, re your comment -- "the bottom line is that the elevations were a result of prescribed agressive abxii monotherapy initially upon dxii of CPni"    iIt is my understanding from your posts you initially started the 400mg doxyi monotherapy for Lyme... it wasn't until after you had been on the Doxy they found the CPN?

 Yes, the liver, the bladder, the colon, most of the filtering organs are all favorite spots of the CPN, but from your posts, it appears you've done well  on the protocol with only the liver enzyme situation affecting you... that's why I asked what your thoughts are about the Lyme contributing. 

I'm not sure if I agree with your statement: "And neither infection in itself without treatment causes enzyme elevations they occur as a result of treatment modalities".  (I have read Dr. Burrescano's paper which states one indication of  Ehrlichia  infection is elevated liver enzymes before  being treated with ABXi.) 

I have been tested and "supposedly" do not have any of the tick borne infectionsi

I believe you mean well, but I take offense to your statement : "you have had more than your fair share of difficulties with medications and supplementsii that work for others yet challenge you and make you feel ill and disturb your balance. " .  It doesn't "read" well,  -- it implies you know, what you don't  know, about me. (I haven't posted much here in quite a while). 

With regard to that statement, I'm  not sure what  medications  you are referencing..... The only problem I  had with the CAPi medications was that it took me a VERY long time to build up my tolerance to them and they have made me very ill.  (I do have concerns, and there is evidence/studies, indicating  taking hydrocortisone could be  potentiating the CPN.)  My  CPN titer test in June of this year was still very high after 2.5 years on CAP.

I didn't particularly care for Cholestrymine  and LDNi didn't work for me (at this point in my treatment) but there are others here who have tried them as well and didn't continue or like them.    I've never had a problem with any supplementsi! 

RE:  " I couldn't really think well about this in regard to your situation as it would require a lot of research that I am not current with and research that perhaps you have already done for yourself." Louise,   I'm not asking you to do research about my issues for me, LOL.... I just wanted to know your thoughts about yourself and why Lyme may or may not be contributing to your liver enzyme situation, ultimately receiving a remonstration on my condition!

You always present questions to ponder, (perhaps a habit from your past life).  I appreciate your time in responding.........

JeanneRoz

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

The following response to Jeanneroz from Louise appears in black type.

Comment from Jeanneroz from above post appear in blue type. 

Louise, re your comment -- "the bottom line is that the elevations were a result of prescribed agressive abxiii monotherapy initially upon dxiii of CPnii"    iIt is my understanding from your posts you initially started the 400mg doxyii monotherapy for Lyme... it wasn't until after you had been on the Doxy they found the CPN?

Jeanne,  Your understanding is quite wrong.

I tested positive for CPn with my first round of lab tests in May 2007 and as a result began tx for CPn as perscribed  by the MD at that time at 200mg twice a day.        I had not a clue about CAP or this website.   I was not initially tested for Bb or any other infectious diseasesi just CPn.  I was tested for the complete infectious disease panel through Fibro&Fatigue Center via Quest Labs, 2 months after I started my initial workup.  This was done because I was getting worse not better from the mono Abxi therapy (which would be expected from what we know here about the bacteriocidal level of doxy which is 200 mg twice a day as opposed to the bacteriostatic level of doxy which is 100mg twice a day). 

Bacteriostatic levels inhibits replication this is the way that CAP eases an individual into treatment.  Bacteriocidal dosages effect a massive kill levels of bacteria too quick and too fast when the bacterial loadi of CPn is very high as mine was by titer.  With Bb (Lyme) that is what is looked for (by some LLMDs) a quick kill but as we know many doctors donot have the complete picture of the life cycle of CPn or Bb for that matter and the level of incapacitation that such treatment can cause.

I did test negative Ehrlichia and did not have the symptoms associated with it.  You certainly are entitled to your opinions about yourself and I am entitled to mine and my understandings.  Makes the world interesting.

 Yes, the liver, the bladder, the colon, most of the filtering organs are all favorite spots of the CPN, but from your posts, it appears you've done well  on the protocol with only the liver enzyme situation affecting you... that's why I asked what your thoughts are about the Lyme contributing. 

I responded that in my personal opinion that it is the action of the abx causing the liver enzyme elevations so I answered your question.  And the word ONLY is understated from my point of view.

I'm not sure if I agree with your statement: "And neither infection in itself without treatment causes enzyme elevations they occur as a result of treatment modalities".  (I have read Dr. Burrescano's paper which states one indication of  Ehrlichia  infection is elevated liver enzymes before  being treated with ABXi.)  I have tested negative for Ehrlichia.

You are entitled to disagree with any statement I make and I with you of course.

I have been tested and "supposedly" do not have any of the tick borne infectionsii I believe you mean well, but I take offense to your statement : "you have had more than your fair share of difficulties with medications and supplementsiii that work for others yet challenge you and make you feel ill and disturb your balance. " .  It implies you know, what you don't really know, about me. (I haven't posted much here in quite a while). With regard to that statement, I'm  not sure what  medications  you are referencing.....

Thyroid replacement, Adrenal hormonal imbalance since you ask but I most clearly want to stay out of your space and situation and do not want to irritate you any more than you have been already. I know little about these situations in general they are not my issues.

The only problem I  had with the CAPi medications was that it took me a VERY long time to build up my tolerance to them and they have made me very ill.  I didn't particularly care for Cholestrymine  and LDNii didn't work for me (at this point in my treatment) but there are others here who have tried them as well and didn't continue or like them.  And there are those that they work for and that is the way it is with medications in general nothing unique there.  

I've never had a problem with any supplementsii!  That is quite wonderful for you.

RE:  " I couldn't really think well about this in regard to your situation as it would require a lot of research that I am not current with and research that perhaps you have already done for yourself." Louise,   I'm not asking you to do research about my issues for me, LOL.... I just wanted to know your thoughts about yourself and why Lyme may or may not be contributing to your liver enzyme situation, ultimately receiving a remonstration on my condition!  

Clearly we both see this interaction from different perspectives and I intend to end it with this submission. 

I commented about my thoughts about myself and my bacterial infections, you are welcome to interpert anything I say in any way that you want.  Arguing the data is at this point useless and unproductive.

You always present questions to ponder... I do appreciate your time in responding!

JeanneRoz

Certainly I will still my fingertips and pose no further questions to you Jeanne.  

Blessings and an abundance of healing to you.  Louise  

 

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

 

Jeanne,  Your understanding is quite wrong.  If that is the case.... I am mistaken and read your initial posts incorrectly... I  truly thought you began the  monotherapy doxyi for Lyme.

Clearly we both see this interaction from different perspectives and I intend to end it with this submission.  Thank you.  Certainly I will still my fingertips and pose no further questions to you Jeanne.  Thank you.   Your questions are not what really grate me, but rather I sense an  omnipotent attitude in your responses  (not only to just me on this site).  But as you stated we obviously have interpreted this communication differently. It also appears you have assumed the role of a self-appointed CPNi site manager by moving posts, etc. which I find irritating, but hey that's my problem.  

Blessings and an abundance of healing to you.  Louise   And to you as well!

___________________________________________________________

CFSii/FMSii 20+yrs/ CPn pos Bb pos/CAPstart 6-21-07/Doxi,Clarithro,Tiniii/11-22-07 Cholestyramine HS PRNx7days for porphyrin reduction/ 5-08 BHRT/ Progressed to HD D3-10,000IU /Iodoral 25mg/ 2-4-09 Intermittent CAP At20MonthsWheldonCAP/2-17-09 LDN4.5mgForCFS

»

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

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